Strike the Head of the Snake
The US ambassador to Ukraine Pyatt and VP Joe Biden have made it clear that the US holds the Yanukovych regime responsible for the bloodshed that has occurred, and any bloodshed to come. This is welcome, I guess, but one wonders what the consequences will actually be. A trip to the comfy chair for Yanukovych and his henchmen, or some tepid financial sanctions? Or something meaningfully robust?
And even if the Ukrainian regime is dealt with harshly, that won’t hold the truly responsible party accountable. Yanukovych doesn’t go to the little boys’ room without a hall pass from Putin. Putin is ultimately responsible for the dead of Maidan.
Punishing at Yanukovych is striking at the tail of the snake. If you want to kill a snake, you must strike at its head. Putin is the head of the python curling around Maidan and Ukraine.
But will Obama have the glands to stand up to Putin? After all, even the dreamy Jimmy Carter was shocked awake from his reveries by the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. But despite the Russian complicity in the slaughter in Syria, and its responsibility for the looming violence in Ukraine, the US remains clearly reluctant to bring home any consequences to Putin or Russia. Indeed, Obama’s public statements about Putin suggest that he is mainly a figure of fun in the White House, ridiculed for his bare-chested bravado. Yes, that is risible, but behind the bravado is a an amoral, calculating, Machiavellian mind. Obama seems oblivious to that, even though Putin has run rings around Obama again and again. Or if he is not oblivious, he is clearly afraid to take on Putin.
I am not advocating the use of force. Instead, I suggest something much more frightening to Putin and his ruling clique.
Back in the Russo-Georgian War, I said that the best US response would be to “cry havoc! and let slip the accountants of war.” That is, ferret out every dirty Russian dime in western financial institutions. Track down every shell company in the Caribbean that traces back to Russia, however tortuous the path.
We can even frame it as a boon to Putin. After all, he has made it plain that he wants to repatriate Russian capital that has fled the country. We’ll just be helping him out!
But given that many of those dollars of flighty capital were launched by members of the ruling clique, such an endeavor would strike real fear into those that matter most.
Yes, Putin and Lavrov will rant and rave if we investigate Russian money in western financial institutions: their shrieks over the Magnitsky list will seem like gentle purrs by comparison. But they are good products of the Soviet Union, which taught that the correlation of forces is decisive in any conflict. Objectively, the correlation of forces decisively favors the US (and the West generally) even given our relatively enervated state. Economics, demographics, military capacity, alliances, you name it. What has been lacking is the will to exploit those advantages. Putin has substituted will for capability. We have the capability to defeat him, if only we had the will to use it.
I am a firm believer in the indirect attack, aimed at the enemy’s center of gravity. Unleashing forensic accountants on Russian money held abroad-and there is a lot of it-would achieve exactly that. Would that Obama would do so. Alas, I think that history will record that Obama made Jimmy Carter look like Rambo on ‘roids.
As in 1968, there are a few brave Russians out there:
The Commitee in Solidarity with Maidan calls for an investigation into the actions of Russian officials and servicemen, including Russia’s top officials, who have helped plan and commit crimes against the Ukrainian people and who have urged the Ukrainian authorities to violently suppress the democratic movement in Ukraine. The Commitee in Solidarity with Maidan calls for economic and political sanctions against these Russian officials and servicemen.
http://aillarionov.livejournal.com/610348.html
Comment by Ivan — February 19, 2014 @ 2:12 am
Since most Russian officials keep their money and children in the West, just LOL at these theories that she has any independent foreign policies. Putins daughters live in Germany and holland. Lavrovs daughter in the US. Putler is the chief administrator of the colonial administration of the Resource Federation, nothing more. In other words, what’s going on in the barbarian east suits the west just fine.
Comment by So? — February 19, 2014 @ 4:58 am
Professor,
We once again see the US government trying to meddle in foreign affairs without any idea of consequences, with only one motivating desire: to make life bad for Russia, just as in Syria last year and back in the 1980s in Afghanistan, where we created Bin Laden as a man capable to kill a lot of Russians for us.
Just listen to the recent phone discussion between the Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs at the United States Department of State Victoria Nuland and the US Ambassador to Ukraine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSx8yLOHSUs
The first thing that strikes you is how they are discussing which of the three opposition leaders – Yatsenyuk, Klitschko or Tyanibok – to appoint as the next President of Ukriane, once again treating Ukraine almost as a US colony, just as the US did during the Yuschenko era. Their decision is to appoint Yatsenyuk, but have him have consultations with Klitschko or Tyanibok at least 4 times a week, and have the UN and not EU bless the trio.
What a the lay listener doesn’t grasp is something much more sinister is the fact that one of the tree is a neo-nazi leader of the Socialist-National Party of Ukraine(not to confuse with the National-Socialist Party of Germany whose name it borrowed) Tyanibok, who praised the extermination of Jews, Poles and Russians during the WWII. This Socialist-National Party is of course a key player in yesterdays provocations of bloodshed on Maydan.
In other words, the US government is happy to work towards spreading Nazism and promoting Nazis into leadership positions as long as this spites the Russian Federation.
Comment by vladislav — February 19, 2014 @ 5:39 am
Correction: the above should read “Klitschko AND Tyanibok” not “Klitschko or Tyanibok”
Comment by vladislav — February 19, 2014 @ 5:40 am
I find it weird how Russian propaganda tries to create the illusion that all of the conflicts that Russia has with its neighbors are somehow a rematch of WWII. Let it rest already. Implying that Maidan = Hitler means that Putin = Stalin.
Comment by aaa — February 19, 2014 @ 6:25 am
I remember an old joke. The teacher is asking her students who the most aggressive country in the world is. So, children say, Iraq, Iran, China, Egypt, etc. And the teacher dismisses it. Then students ask the teacher which country it is. She goes, “the United States.” The students ask why. She goes, “because she meddles in the internal affairs of the Soviet Union in all quarters of the world.”
Comment by MJ — February 19, 2014 @ 9:35 am
to vladislav: Your muttering blah-blah is a typical Russian propaganda
Comment by Eugene De Lattes — February 19, 2014 @ 9:37 am
vladislav, what spites the Rooshan Federation is democracy.
It is quite disgusting that you are spreading old, worn out WWII sovok propaganda and turning logic and facts upside down.
You like Putler and his dictatorship – go live in the Rashan Federation.
In Ukraine, people don’t want a dictatorship, they don’t want a thug oligarch kleptocrat regime like in the Rooshan Federation.
In Ukraine, people don’t want just a few select people to become billionaires at the cost of no human rights, no legal system, no opportunity, no freedom of speech, no freedom of travel, no freedom.
In Ukraine, people want democracy.
That is a terrifying word to a psycho like Putler.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
And vladislav – watch out for those Nazis and Fascists – they are everywhere.
The worst one is in the Rashan Federation – his name is Putler.
Comment by elmer — February 19, 2014 @ 10:01 am
@SWP
Ambassador John Bolton agrees with you about a Rubicon being crossed, and about sanctions against Russia and Putler.
You have probably seen it on Fox
Ambassador Bolton hopes that it’s not too late.
And this is for vladislav
Rashan Federation ban on lacy lingerie
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/02/17/russian-ban-on-lacy-lingerie-meets-cries-panty-persecution/?intcmp=obinsite
Comment by elmer — February 19, 2014 @ 10:36 am
On Sunday, 30 women protesters in Kazakhstan were arrested and thrown into police vans while wearing lace underwear on their heads and shouting “Freedom to panties!”
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/02/17/russian-ban-on-lacy-lingerie-meets-cries-panty-persecution/?intcmp=obinsite
Putler’s “freedom of speech” and “freedom of trade” in the Nazi Fascist Rashan Federation
Comment by elmer — February 19, 2014 @ 10:37 am
@vladislav-Thanks for the entertainment. You said your lines perfectly.
Care to conjecture what kinds of conversations Putin and his lieutenants have regarding the Ukrainian opposition? It’s government? How about the conversations between Putin, Surkov, and other Russian officials, and officials of the Ukrainian government?
Anybody who gets all outraged about the Nuland-Pyatt conversation is either tragically naive, or acting.
Rogozin is coming to Ukraine Feb 20
But here is an amazing video which the Nazi Fascist Putler and his minions won’t like
The Berkut special forces in Ternopil came to Theatre Square in the western city of Ternopil to ask for forgiveness:
Here they are, walking – without helmets or weapons – side by side with protesters
Truly, truly amazing, and something that the Nazi Fascist Putler and his idiot minion yanusvoloch do not want to see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nth-_E2Zpdc#t=227
Comment by elmer — February 19, 2014 @ 1:07 pm
another link to the story about Berkut asking the nation for forgiveness
http://censor.net.ua/video_news/271548/berkut_ternopolya_vyshel_na_evromayidan_i_prosit_proscheniya_u_naroda_video
Comment by elmer — February 19, 2014 @ 1:08 pm
I would guess City of London could shed light on the location of funds but good luck with that.
Comment by pahoben — February 19, 2014 @ 4:18 pm
Vladislav:
Tiahnybok is as less of a Nazi than Communist Party leader Symonenko, Yanukovich’s coalition partner and ally, is a hardcore Stalinist. The latter’s party recently put up a statue oto Stalin. Tiahnybok, in contrast, has never built a statue of Hitler. When he took over the Social National Party he changed its name and expelled some of its more extreme elements. At any rate, condemning the moderate opposition leaders for allying with Tiahnybok when their government enemy is in partnership with the Communists is ridiculous.
Comment by AP — February 19, 2014 @ 4:50 pm
@MJ
> I remember an old joke.
Yea, th eold joke from th eold times when the USSR was spreading aggression all over the world, and hte US was answering with the same. The USSR is no longer, but the USA is now working for the two of them.
I don’t know any new jokes about it, but the reality is funnier than any joke. For example, on numerous occasions have I heard US senators and other officials being asked by US reporters:
– Why is Russia’s foreign policy unacceptable to the United States?
And the answer is:
– Because it is trying to act as a regional power in the former USSR space.
In other words, it is totally legal for the US to act as a global power all over the world — especially in the Arab World, Europe and Latin America — and to invade and destroy them whenever the fancy strikes it, but and it is unacceptable for any other country to act as a local power in the countries that are adjacent to it and that speak the same language.
Comment by vladislav — February 19, 2014 @ 4:54 pm
@AP
> Tiahnybok, in contrast, has never built a statue of Hitler.
Why would Tyanibok built a statue to Hitler? Hitler was not a Ukrainian. Tyanibok idolizes not Hitler but the OUN/UPA leaders like Bandera, Shukhevych, Melnik, Stetsko, the men who in cold blood exterminated hundreds of thousands of innocent Polish civilians and tens of thousands of Jewish civilians, and additionally assisted the Nazis in exterminating hundreds of thousands if not millions of Jews. Of course, Tyanibok is not alone in that, as the former President Yuschenko declared and appointed these genocidists as “Heroes of Ukraine”.
> At any rate, condemning the moderate opposition leaders for allying with Tiahnybok when their government enemy is in partnership with the Communists is ridiculous.
I condemn the moderate opposition leaders for allying with Tiahnybok less than I condemn the USA.
The Ukrainian politics is aggravated and is prone to violence and civil war because of the crime that Stalin committed back in 1939 when he annexed by brute force Western Ukraine – previously a province of Austria and Poland – to the USSR and to Ukraine. So, for the last 70-75 years, Western Ukraine has been suffering from foreign occupation. They simply don’t belong to the USSR or to the modern Ukraine. They have a different religion, mindset, value set from the rest of Ukraine and from the rest of the World. Nowhere else is xenophobia is a rampant as in West Ukraine, where all ethnicities that the West Ukrainians have ever come into contact with, are viewed as mortal enemies: Jews, Russians, Poles, Hungarians, Germans, Romanians, everybody.
It is high time that Stalin’s crime of occupation is undone and Western Ukraine is given its hard-fought sovereignty that it richly deserves and that they have been struggling for for the last 6 or 7 centuries. Otherwise, the civil war between West and East Ukraines is unavoidable.
Comment by vladislav — February 19, 2014 @ 5:27 pm
> Care to conjecture what kinds of conversations Putin and his lieutenants have regarding the Ukrainian opposition? It’s government? How about the conversations between Putin, Surkov, and other Russian officials, and officials of the Ukrainian government?
Oh i am sure they too are quite anti-democratic and brutal.
> Anybody who gets all outraged about the Nuland-Pyatt conversation is either tragically naive, or acting.
Well, I certainly am not “all outraged” about the Nuland-Pyatt conversation. A lot of Westerners are, but for a wrong reason: Nuland said: “Let’s go with the UN and fuck EU”. So, the Western politicians and journalists don’t like the word “fuck” for some reason. What is important here is that we once again received proof that the US is behind the Ukrainian politics and treats it as its puppet state. This hardly “outrageous” because the USA treats the entire World this way ever since the fall of the Berlin Wall. However, I find this situation to be wrong and bad even for the average Americans them/ourselves.
Comment by vladislav — February 19, 2014 @ 5:43 pm
@elmer,
> On Sunday, 30 women protesters in Kazakhstan were arrested and thrown into police vans while wearing lace underwear on their heads and shouting “Freedom to panties!”… Putler’s “freedom of speech” and “freedom of trade” in the Nazi Fascist Rashan Federation
First of all, let me update you: for the last 22 years Kazakhstan has been an independent nation, and the correct spelling is “Russian” not “Rashan”. Grow up, child.
Second, I agree that it is wrong for Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan to regulate the material content of women’s panties sold there. Some women may be allergic to cotton and/or prefer some unnatural material for their panties.
Moreover, by regulating their imports, Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan have infringed on the patent that belongs to the United States which should be the only country to have a monopoly on trade regulation and trade wars, be it the economic blockade of the fellow WTO member Cuba, or of Russian and Chinese steel, or of the bananas from the EU (who can forget those brutal banana wars? :-)), and of everything else.
> Nazi Fascist Rashan Federation
No matter how outraged you are about the content of your panties, you may be a bit overhysterical in calling this “Nazi Fascist”. I think the real Nazis did more wrong than regulating panties.
Are you a little child or an adult suffering from hysteria and warped perception, Elmer?
Comment by vladislav — February 19, 2014 @ 5:56 pm
@vladislav
Kazakhstan independent? HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA,
Thanks for the geography lesson, but there is no difference between the Rasha and Kazakhstan
The real Nazi Fascists CURRENTLY are Vlad Dracul Putler and his band of thugs.
I know that grates on your nerves, vladislav, but it’s the truth.
And it is shameful that you support a Nazi Fascist thug like Vlad Dracul Putler and his palaces and his repression of the people in the Rasha.
Comment by elmer — February 19, 2014 @ 6:43 pm
@vladislav Before projecting Russia’s power in the region, maybe you should ask what the people of that region feel about about it. Perhaps the absence of new jokes is due to the absence of the mood for joking.
Comment by MJ — February 19, 2014 @ 8:52 pm
@ Vladisalv
“Why would Tyanibok built a statue to Hitler? Hitler was not a Ukrainian.”
Neither was Stalin.
“Tyanibok idolizes not Hitler but the OUN/UPA leaders like Bandera, Shukhevych, Melnik, Stetsko, the men who in cold blood exterminated hundreds of thousands of innocent Polish civilians and tens of thousands of Jewish civilians, and additionally assisted the Nazis in exterminating hundreds of thousands if not millions of Jews.”
You are exaggerating. The most recent estimate by the foremost Polish expert is 80,000-100,000 murdered, not “hundreds of thousands”:
http://wyborcza.pl/1,76842,5240814,Zapomnijcie_o_Giedroyciu__Polacy__Ukraincy__IPN.html
During that period of time, the other combatants did murder 100,000s of civilians. How many died in Dresden?
“The Ukrainian politics is aggravated and is prone to violence and civil war because of the crime that Stalin committed back in 1939 when he annexed by brute force Western Ukraine – previously a province of Austria and Poland – to the USSR and to Ukraine. So, for the last 70-75 years, Western Ukraine has been suffering from foreign occupation. They simply don’t belong to the USSR or to the modern Ukraine. They have a different religion, mindset, value set from the rest of Ukraine and from the rest of the World.”
Funny, western Ukrainians and Kievans are standing together and voted for the same presidential candidate. I suspect the real reason you wish that western Ukraine was expelled is because without western Ukraine, Kiev would be outnumbered and would be forced against the will of its people into some sort of union with Russia.
“Nowhere else is xenophobia is a rampant as in West Ukraine, where all ethnicities that the West Ukrainians have ever come into contact with, are viewed as mortal enemies: Jews, Russians, Poles, Hungarians, Germans, Romanians, everybody.”
Any evidence for this claim?
BTW did you know that Ukrainians in general are much less antisemitic than all of their neighbors, including Russians?
http://www.pewglobal.org/2009/11/02/chapter-6-opinions-of-ethnic-and-religious-minorities/
This survey does not differentiate western Ukrainians from other Ukrainians, but given the all-Ukrainian average is quite pro-Jewish, if the western parts of the country are really antisemitic this would mean that the rest of the country is off-the-charts philosemitic, which seems doubtful.
Comment by AP — February 19, 2014 @ 10:25 pm
@Mj
> Before projecting Russia’s power in the region, maybe you should ask what the people of that region feel about about it.
I did. I have met hundreds of Tadjiks, Kazakhs, Armenians and other people from ex-Soviet republics living here in the SF Bay area and in Moscow. What amazes me is that they are much bigger patriots of Russia than Russians themselves. The Tadjik immigrants here in Silicon Valley raise their little children speaking Russian as their native tongue. These children speak better Russian than my own children, who prefer English.
On the other hand, the Panamanians, Serbs, Iraqis, and Afghanis that I have met feel no gratitude towards the US for its efforts for destroying these countries, to put it mildly. You may be surprised to learn that the countries that the US commits aggression against, don’t feel as much gratitude towards the USA as our mass media tell us.
Comment by vladislav — February 20, 2014 @ 12:17 am
Huh? Hundreds of Tadjiks, Kazakhs, Armenians, Panamanians, Serbs, Iraqis, and Afghanis…? We already have established for some time that you are a genius. But that you are also social worker and an immigration officer at once is a discovery that we owe to the Ukrainian events I guess. And they say the Ukrainian events don’t have good consequences…
Comment by MJ — February 20, 2014 @ 12:35 am
@AP:
> Any evidence for this claim?
Sure. Just look at the gigantic numbers that various neo-nazi xenophobic candidates and parties receive in the elections. I doubt if any other place on earth comes even close. Look, the xenophobic fascist Tyanibok has become one of top 3 most important opposition leaders. How? The vast majority of his votes came from West Ukraine. And his party is only one of a multitude of fascist parties that thrive in West Ukraine. Tyanibok’s fascists look moderate compared to the newly formed “Right Sector” party that is promoting violence and war and is the most deadly force behind yesterday’s violence and deaths.
Also, what places on Earth – other than West Ukraine, Latvia and Estonia – glamorize Nazi Waffen SS divisions as national heroes?
Comment by vladislav — February 20, 2014 @ 12:48 am
@ Vladislav
“Sure. Just look at the gigantic numbers that various neo-nazi xenophobic candidates and parties receive in the elections.”
Tiahnybok gets 3.8% as a first choice in the latest opinion poll:
http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/189196.html
“In general, among those who would participate in the elections, 29.5% would vote for Yanukovych in the first round, 28.7% for Klitschko, 18.6% for Poroshenko, 9.2% for Yatseniuk, 4.7% for Communist Party leader Petro Symonenko, 3.8% for Tiahnybok, 0.7% for Ukrainian Choice leader Viktor Medvedchuk, and 4.9% for another candidate.”
His is the most popular of the far-right parties in Ukraine. And though he has said anti-Semitic things once in a while, maybe less than .01% of the time in his numerous speeches, this is not a central part of his platform or foremost on the minds of his supporters.
“The vast majority of his votes came from West Ukraine.
Actually, he is most popular in Galicia and in the city of Kiev. He is more popular in Kiev than he is in Volhynia (barely), Transcarpathia or Bukovyna (all western Ukrainian regions). He is more popular in Cherkassy in central Ukraine than in the latter two western regions. And even within Galicia his party doesn’t come close to 50% support; it’s in the thirties, compared to over 60% support for moderates.
“And his party is only one of a multitude of fascist parties that thrive in West Ukraine”
Which other ones thrive there? By thrive – more than 1% support.
“Also, what places on Earth – other than West Ukraine, Latvia and Estonia – glamorize Nazi Waffen SS divisions as national heroes”
Link between this and antisemitism?
Comment by AP — February 20, 2014 @ 1:09 am
vladislav, you are reciting your lines perfectly, including all the crap about Nazi Waffen SS divisions.
The Kremlinoids are shrieking WWII propaganda which was discredited a long long time ago.
So according to you and the Kremlinoids, Ukraine should not have true democracy today because of the sovok mythology that Western Ukraine had a Nazi Waffen SS division – which it did not – and because immigrants in San Francisco are more Rashan than Rashans.
The Kremlinoid spin doctors have nothing better, so they re-live WWII – er, the “Great Patriotic War” – every day, just like during sovok union days.
The Kremlinoids have now even resorted to calling Western Europe “fascists.”
There is no doubt that you are being paid to recite a Kremlinoid script which has been repeated over and over and over – same thing, I’ve seen it many, many times, it never varies – in various blogs and comment sections in newspapers.
You’re obviously being paid.
And noone believes that Kremlinoid crap anyway.
Tell Vlad Dracul Putler, the Nazi Fascist In Chief, to go soak his head in his palace toilet in Sochi.
Comment by elmer — February 20, 2014 @ 9:00 am
About Ukrainian police antisemitism, from a pro-maidan website:
http://euromaidanpr.wordpress.com/2014/01/26/jewish-community-outraged-at-berkuts-antisemitic-propaganda/
Comment by AP — February 20, 2014 @ 9:00 am
Alexander Roitburd, a Jew, who is an internationally popular Ukrainian artist:
“I do not have any specific Jewish feelings about Maidan. I certainly feel that I’m a Jew when I am in Maidan. But I feel like a Jew being on a Hawaiian beach, and in the Red Square and in the Metropolitan Museum, and in the Odessa market. Being in Maidan I do not feel any surplus threat because of my Jewishness. Some “professional” Jews, of course, are trying to expand in the world’s media campaign about anti-Semitism in Maidan.
“My expert assessment is that there is no special anti-Semitism in Maidan. Certainly there are anti-Semites over there. But there are anti-Semites not only in Maidan. They are everywhere: on the Hawaiian beach, and in the Red Square and in the Metropolitan Museum, and in Odessa market…
“There are hundreds and thousands of testimonies of Jews standing in Maidan, an atmosphere of unity and brotherhood prevails over there.
“…When there is a war between good and evil, I’m on the side of good. My Jewish ethics requires me to do so. Incidentally, this is why most Ukrainian Jews today are on the same side, and no propaganda raid will change this fact.”
Here is a comment to this statement made by one Ukrainian Internet user: “Thanks to Maidan, even just for the fact that this statement was provoked by it, I ‘m not talking about the rest … Just for the sake of this realization we needed to come to Maidan!”
————————–
I think we are starting to suspect whose side Vladislav is on…
Comment by AP — February 20, 2014 @ 9:04 am
The vast majority of oligarchs in Ukraine is Jewish.
One of the most brilliant analysts/journalists and a vocal Ukrainian patriot is Jewish – Vitaly Portnikov.
He was chased out of Ukraine by death threats from the yanusvoloch criminal thug regime, not by EuroMaidan. He is now in Poland.
@AP – there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that vladislav works for the Kremlinoids. I have seen the script many, many, many, many times before, and it’s always the same.
Comment by elmer — February 20, 2014 @ 10:08 am
You know, as much as I really like Jews and generally enjoy their company, I am really puzzled when somehow, whatever happens in whatever corner of the world, some of them have a tendency to make it look like everything is about the Jews… I will confess though that sometimes I come across such “exclusivity” also among some non-Jews.
Comment by MJ — February 20, 2014 @ 10:24 am
AP,
MJ is absolutely on point here. Nobody cares how many Jews are pro-Maidan and how many are against. And nobody cares about how many antisemites are there sunbathing in Hawaii.
What is important is to ask: is this politician a good person or an extremist who spreads racial, religious and ethnic hate. It could be hate of Jews or Mexicans or Poles or Russians or any other ethnicity. How many US politicians have lost their careers over allegation of racism?
Unfortunately, many politicians and even more non-politicians have lost their careers and prosperity over some innocent remarks. A sports commentator Jimmy the Greek was fired for saying that African-Americans are genetically predisposed to being good at sprint running. A TV chef Paula Dean lost her TV job for using an “N” word in her kitchen.
These are the excesses of political correctness. However, when a politician genuinely espouses xenophobia and the hatred of people based on their ethnicity, he should not be elected to high political offices in this country, nor should this country support such politicians in other countries. Tyanibok is an extreme example of a man who not only espouses ethnic hatred but who wants to force the state to prosecute and persecute of people based on their ethnicity. Let me simply quote from the Wiki:
In October 1991 Tyahnybok became a member of the Social-National Party of Ukraine.[8] On July 20, 2004, Tyahnybok was expelled from the Our Ukraine parliamentary faction[8][11] after he made a speech in the Carpathian Mountains at the gravesite of a commander of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army.[11] In the speech, which was aired on television in the summer of 2004, he made comments like:[12]
“[You are the ones] that the Moscow-Jewish mafia ruling Ukraine fears most”[11]
and
“They [OUN/UPA] were not afraid and we should not be afraid. They put their machine guns on their necks and went into the woods, and fought against the Moskali (Russians), Germans, Kikes (Jews) and other scum who wanted to take away our Ukrainian state.”[10]
In April 2005, Tyahnybok co-signed an open letter to President Yushchenko calling for a parliamentary investigation into the “criminal activities of organized Jewry in Ukraine.”[4][15]
///////////////////////
In other words, he wants to prosecute the leaders and members of Jewish organizations in Ukraine and to send them to labor camps. Also, given that every person on this planet knows of Hitler’s National-Socialist Party, why would an extremist right-wing party call itself “Social-National Party” if not to emphasize its agreement with the National-Socialist viewpoint, and why would a decent person join this party and then become its leader?
Tyanibok and his Social-National Party are peopl
Comment by vladislav — February 21, 2014 @ 1:37 am
As far as the demands of some Maidan extremists to oust the democratically elected President of Ukraine are concerned, they should be happy to recall that the next Presidential elections are set for February 2015, just a year from now, and they should do their best to peacefully convince the majority of the Ukrainian population to reject Yanukovich and elect somebody else. I think the President of the United States put it well in a speech 3 or 4 years ago:
“You don’t like a particular policy or a particular president? Then argue for your position. Go out there and win an election. But don’t break it.”
Don’t shoot at the policemen, don’t throw explosives don’t ransack the capital. You made your case in the peaceful demonstrations back in November 2013. Now it is time to go back to your regular jobs and to keep on writing media articles to convince the Ukrainian voters to support your views in the upcoming elections.
Comment by vladislav — February 21, 2014 @ 2:39 am
vladislav, you are reading – and repeating – your script very, very well.
Annie Applebaum has very ably and brilliantly outlined your script – and smears – used by you and the Kremlinoids here:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2014/02/ukraine_s_opaque_politics_the_smears_and_clich_s_used_to_describe_the_fight.html?wpisrc=burger_bar
You and the Kremlinoids keep repeating over and over that the swine Yanukonvikt was “democratically elected.”
But he was not “democratically elected” to be a dictator.
As soon as he took steps to be a dictator right after being elected, including ramming through changes in the constitution with a court from the Planet of the Apes, complete with medallions, he lost all legitimacy.
You should find a regular job, vladislav, instead of spreading Kremlinoid smears and stupidity.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Comment by elmer — February 21, 2014 @ 8:31 am
But he is ashamed of himself, elmer, and that’s the only plausible explanation of why he does what he does. People just have different ways of dealing with their internal conflict. This is his way. It goes like a spiral, and more he does it, worse off he is.
Comment by MJ — February 21, 2014 @ 8:46 am
MJ, elmer,
My discussions with you are done. For 2 reasons. First, your mental age and IQ, as exemplified by the following sample quotes from your posts addressed to me:
“Roosha
Putler
Rasha
Roosha
psycho like Putler
watch out for those Nazis and Fascists – they are everywhere. The worst one is in the Rashan Federation – his name is Putler.
Rasha
ban on lacy lingerie – Putler’s “freedom of speech” and “freedom of trade” in the Nazi Fascist Rashan Federation
Nazi Fascist Putler and his minions
the Nazi Fascist Putler and his idiot minion yanusvoloch
The real Nazi Fascists CURRENTLY are Vlad Dracul Putler…
you support a Nazi Fascist thug like Vlad Dracul Putler
Rasha
Rashan
Rashans
Vlad Dracul Putler, the Nazi Fascist In Chief”
I simply don’t know how to engage in thoughtful discusssions with people of pre-kindergarten mentality
The second reason is that because your own position is absurd, anti-democratic, anti-constitional and indefensible, you base your argument on ad-hominem attacks:
“You’re obviously being paid
there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that vladislav works for the Kremlinoids.
you are reading – and repeating – your script very, very well.
You should find a regular job, vladislav, instead of spreading Kremlinoid smears and stupidity.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
he is ashamed of himself, elmer, and that’s the only plausible explanation of why he does what he does. People just have different ways of dealing with their internal conflict. This is his way. It goes like a spiral, and more he does it, worse off he is.”
Comment by vladislav — February 21, 2014 @ 4:32 pm
However, for the readers of this blog, I will correct factual errors. Here is one:
“So according to you and the Kremlinoids, Ukraine should not have true democracy today because of the sovok mythology that Western Ukraine had a Nazi Waffen SS division – which it did not”
Let’s see….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_%281st_Ukrainian%29
14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Ukrainian)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Ukrainian) (German: 14. Waffen Grenadier Division der SS (galizische Nr.1), prior to 1944 titled the 14th SS-Volunteer Division “Galician” (German: 14. SS-Freiwilligen Division “Galizien”)[1] was a World War II German military formation initially made up of volunteers from the region of Galicia with a Ukrainian ethnic background[2] It also had the support of both the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church and the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church.
Why did you write this, elmer? Because you are a pathological liar?
Or out of utter ignorance combined with the inability to google your answer before publicly embarrassing yourself? Or maybe you don’t even know that Lvov and Galicia are the heart of West Ukraine?
Comment by vladislav — February 21, 2014 @ 4:45 pm
@ Vladislav
Tiahnybok has made hundreds if not thousands of speeches in h is career. He made antisemitic comments in a speech in 2004, about 10 years ago. It seems this may have been the only one, because it’s the only one that is mentoned.
Tiahnybok changed the name of the Social National Party and purged it of its more extreme elements after taking it over. It is indeed a far right party, but not a neo-Nazi Party. It is in a similar league to Hungary’s Jobbik.
Moreover, it is the least popular of the opposition parties. It got 10% of the vote in the last elections (which makes it the choice of 20% of the opposition – i.e., 80% of the opposition do not support them) and polls show that its support has declined since than. But it is very convenient to highlight it all the time.
As for Yanukovich being democratically elected. Yes, he was. He was elected as a president with limited powers with an oppostion parliament. He was not elected to control the parliament, which he did, nor to have total control of the courts. There was no election giving him such power. And it was exactly because he got so greedy and ammassed total power with no mandate from the people to do so, that this uprising occured. When legal ways by the majority of the people to limit his power were taken away, they used extralegal means to do so.
Comment by AP — February 21, 2014 @ 7:03 pm
While I know nothing on the subject of the “Galician” division per se, to put some things in their proper context I want to confirm that there have been special ethnic divisions formed by the representatives of the nations of former USSR who had either left their homeland after losing the battle to Bolsheviks in 1918-1927 or so, had been exiled or had immigrated to Europe, who have cooperated in some very limited sense with the Nazi Germany during WWII. They have been under SS oversight. Also, if my memory doesn’t betray me, there has been also such Russian division.
I had access to a corresponding literature some 25-30 years ago and unfortunately don’t have now.
The WWII has simply given them a hope that they can restore the independence of their respective nations from USSR. Hitler has promised them independence if they would fight on Germany’s side. However, clearly they have not enjoyed the trust of Germany as these ethnic formations have remained unarmed to the end of WWII. They have performed mostly logistic functions and have not committed any war crimes – at least I have not seen or heard any allegation of such.
Whether Hitler would’ve honored his promise of granting independence to the respective Republics and the cooperation of these ethnic divisions was based on naiveté or if their judgment can be questioned is a different question and I don’t have an unequivocal answer. However, I thought it is important to clearly state what those ethnic divisions operating under the German command represented.
Interestingly enough, in early 1950s KGB managed to capture in Bulgaria one of the celebrated ethnic generals, a writer and an amazing publicist, who had fought Bolsheviks successfully till the summer of 1921 for having established one of such ethnic division subject to discussion. He has died in a Vladimir prison many years later.
He remains as a most revered national here for his fellow brethren and the respective state to this day – not for what he has done during WWII (and he practically has done nothing but dreamed then) but for what he has done up to the summer of 1921.
Comment by MJ — February 22, 2014 @ 1:19 am
Sorry for the typo. I meant to say “national hero” not “national here.”
Comment by MJ — February 22, 2014 @ 1:31 am
@AP,
> Tiahnybok has made hundreds if not thousands of speeches in his career. He made antisemitic comments in a speech in 2004, about 10 years ago. It seems this may have been the only one, because it’s the only one that is mentoned.
Yes, the only one, unless you know how to read and noticed that in 2005 he also demanded “a parliamentary investigation into the “criminal activities of organized Jewry in Ukraine.” In other words, demanded that the Ukrainian President put the leaders of all Jewish organizations into labor camps.
Look, let us imagine that an American politician said in a public speech: “Our predecessors in the KKK took machine guns and killed Niggers and Dagos and Chinks” and referred to the US government as a “Jew-Nigger occupied”, in 2005 demanded that the leaders of all African-American organizations like NAACP be thrown into prisons, and in 2014 ran for the Minority Leader of the Senate. How would you characterize this situation?
Back in the early 1990s, a Jewish clown named Valdimir Zhirinovsky – a presidential candidate in Russia – said that Russians should live in Russia and Jews – in Israel, which is hardly surprising given that his own father emigrated to Israel in the 1940s. The American media has been portraying him as an “viciously anti-semitic neo-nazi”. The American government has protested his political role on many occasions. The American mass media and “experts” have used Zhirinovsky as the biggest example of “vicious antisemitism in Russia”. And all that for something that he said back in 1990 or so, and since then he has on numerous occasions repeated his support of Israel.
The situation is very simple. For centuries, Russia has been viewed by the West as a geopolitical rival, and the hatred towards it skyrocketed since the start of the Cold War, because the Western propaganda substituted hatred of Russians for the hatred of Communists, equaling the two. Ever since the 1930s, it became the operating principle of the West that in the struggle against Communists (read: Russians) anything goes: lies, fabrications, provocations, fascism, genocide, dictatorships, etc. It seemed likely that with the fall of Communism in Eastern Europe and in Russia, this will all go away. It didn’t. Rampant russophobia continues unchecked and is still a major driving force in US, UK and other Western countries’ foreign policies. In trying to spite Russia, the West supports the most obtainable forces – islamic terrorists like Bin Laden, KLA, and various Syrian extremists, fascists and neo-nazis, etc., etc.
> He was elected as a president with limited powers with an oppostion parliament. He was not elected to control the parliament, which he did.
Well, if he violated the Constitution of Ukraine in his dealings with the Rada, this must be rectified as soon as possible. Please specify when and how he did that, and we’ll go from there.
Now, let me back up and give my overall position. For many years, people have been warning about an impending and inevitable civil war in Ukraine, but I found the whole idea totally ridiculous. When I first heard from the pro-Western Ukrainian media (in October 2013?) about a proposed agreement between Ukraine and the EU to incorporate Ukraine into the European economic framework and to integrate the Ukrainian labor force with that of EU, I was very happy, because of my belief that this will greatly improve the grave economic fate of average Ukrainians and because of my opposition to Putin’s regime. However, when I perused the text of this document, I found out out that this was empty dreaming on the part of the Ukrainian media. The agreement held out no help. Not only were the Ukrainians not allowed to participate in the European labor force, this agreement didn’t even ease the vicious EU barriers to Ukrainians traveling to the West. This agreement (not worth the paper it’s written on) holds out no economic help for average Ukrainians, except for a few oligarchs.
Still, when thousands filled Maidan in November 2013, expressing their dissatisfaction with Yanukovich policies, I was for them. To me, this was Ukraine’s version of demonstrations in the West, like the Occupy Wall Street movement, whose members occupied Wall Street for a few days, making the public opinion aware of the way Wall Street and other corporate interests control US policies and steal taxpayer money. They made their point, got into little squabbles with the police, and went home a few days later.
I expected the same to happen in Kiev. But it didn’t. These people have been camping out in the center of the Kiev for almost 3 months, disrupting the functioning of the Ukrainian capital with no end in sight. And this surprised me. I asked myself: would I or any of my friends and relatives be able to do the same. The answer is “no”: we all have jobs and/or studying to do. Nobody that i know (except for senior citizens) can afford to take indefinite vacations form our work and our responsibilities. And we are 100 times better off economically than average Ukrainians. So, who are these permanent residents of Maidan? Where does the money to support their idle lifestyle come from? Are they all children of wealthy Ukrainian oligarchs? Or are they financially sustained by some organizations or corporations with an anti-Yanukovich stake in this calamity?
These people have made their point loud and clear. The Ukrainian electorate has heard them and will vote their approval/disapproval in the upcoming presidential elections. So, why didn’t they go home, the way demonstrators do here in the USA? What else do they want? I was wondering: how long will these peaceful demonstrators stay in Maidan?
And suddenly, in the last few days, violence erupted. The way the Western media portray what happened, was this. The demonstrators were peacefully carrying peaceful slogans and flowers. And suddenly, the government forces attacked them and started killing these peaceful and harmless flower-bearers left and right.
But that is not the case. Put down Wall Street Journal, Wshington Post and other propaganda machines and earch the internet. There are dozens and dozens police officers killed and badly injured. Molotoff cocktails are being thrown at them left and right. Demonstrators ram trucks at the police. In Lviv, extremists attacked army arsenals and stole more than 1000 machine guns. Notice: not flowers, but machine guns! More than a thousand!
Why? Because the opposition didn’t like some policy decision of the democratically elected President, exactly the same way the US opposition didn’t like ObamaCare and promised to take revenge on Obama at the next elections. But in Ukraine, the opposition didn’t decide to take revenge at the voting boooths. Or no. They decided that if the freely and democratically elected President is implementing the policies that he was elected by the majority to implement – down with the Presidency, down with the Constitution, death to democracy. “We are going to war, because, like, little children, we don’t accept that in a democracy, the minority must sometimes yield to the will of the majority”.
Ask yourself: what will happen to a country, where every time a democratically elected President enacts a policy that his opposition doesn’t like, there is a riot and a rebellion and hundreds of deaths? The answer became clear to me a couple of days ago: an inevitable civil war between the two political sides. With hundreds of thousands of deaths, just like in the previous civil wars in Ukraine. And an inevitable break-up of the country into 2 halves, probably along the Dnieper River.
And this should not be allowed to happen. Just imagine what would happen in the US if the Occupy demonstrators kept on occupying Downtown Manhattan for 3 months. Would the police allow this, forever closing the NY Stock Exchange and other vital financial institutions? Never. The demonstrators would be removed with force in a matter of days. But Ukraine is not the US, and the government their in its weakness allowed the occupation to go on for months, inevitably leading to the riots and bloodshed.
Some of my anti-Yanukovich friends are planning to hold demonstrations with demands “Stop the bloodshed!”. I would gladly join them with my own slogans: “Stop the bloodshed! Defend the Constitution! Defend the democracy! Defend the will of the majority! Arrest the anti-democratic right-wing provocateurs! Restore the law, order and the rule of the Constitution! prevent a bloody civil war!”
It amazes me that the rioters claim to be “pro-democracy”. Can you instill peace through war? Can you enforce the freedom of speech by forcefully shutting down and out your opponents. Can you bring democracy by destroying it? Can you bring the rule of law by shattering the Constitution?
No, you can’t. These people don’t want democracy. They want a right-wing dictatorship. And in order to get their way, they have started a fratricidal civil war. And instead of helping them destroy democracy and start a civil war, those in the West who support democracy, should help the government to enforce the law, the order, and the Constitution. Act now, before the law and order can be restored, or tomorrow it will be too late and rivers of blood will flow in a lawless civil war.
Comment by vladislav — February 22, 2014 @ 1:53 am
This is about the “rampant anti-Semitism” in Maydan: http://ord-02.com/item/31649-evrey-komandir-na-maydane-antisemitizma-net-so-mnoy-sluzhat-4-izrailtyanina-s-boevyim-opyitom.
For those who don’t read Russian, it is an interview with one of the organizers of the defense of Maydan, a person of Jewish origin, who coincidentally says that there are four Israeli guys with military experience helping him in that.
Comment by MJ — February 22, 2014 @ 4:26 am
My earlier attempts to post the following failed. In all likelihood it went to the Spam box. But here is another try:
This is about the “rampant anti-Semitism” in Maydan: http://ord-02.com/item/31649-evrey-komandir-na-maydane-antisemitizma-net-so-mnoy-sluzhat-4-izrailtyanina-s-boevyim-opyitom.
For those who don’t read Russian, it is an interview with one of the organizers of the defense of Maydan, a person of Jewish origin, who coincidentally that there are four Israeli guys with military experience helping him in that.
Comment by MJ — February 22, 2014 @ 4:47 am
@ Vladislav
So he said something antisemitic in 2004 and signed an antisemitic letter in 2005. Anything else? I may be wrong, but I suspect that since these two things are mentioned exclusively, there is not much else to it from him. As for the references to “dago ” etc., his use of the word zhyd is the proper, pre-Russian use of that word. It is understandable that, as a Ukrainian nationalist, he would prefer the pre-Russian language. BTW, zhyd is also the word for Jew in Polish, Lithuanian, Czech, Croat, and Hungarian. Those peoples did not let the Russians tell them how to use their languages. But this point is a distraction, let’s not take it further.
BTW, in France a party similar to Svoboda has also had a party leader who made antisemitic statements. That guy even made it into the second round of French presidential elections. Do you condemn the French people and oppose democracy for them based on this?
“Well, if he violated the Constitution of Ukraine in his dealings with the Rada, this must be rectified as soon as possible. Please specify when and how he did that, and we’ll go from there.
Since he came to control the courts everything he has done has been legally “Constitutional.” However, let me explain what he did: recall that when Yanukovich was elected president he was granted limited powers by the Constitution at that time. Moreover, the Parliament was controlled by the Opposition, who had won the last election. At that time Parliamentary elections were based on proportional voting – people didn’t vote for individual MPs, they voted for parties and the MPs were there simply to fulfill the mandate of the voters. So because 52% of voters chose Orange parties, 52% of the parliament was Orange. Soon after the presidential election, the Parliament flipped, without any new Parliamentary elections. Unelected MPs who were there because they were supposed to represent Orange parties suddenly switched sides. According to the Constitution they were supposed to represent their parties but there was no constitutional mechanism to remove them if they did not do so. Read Article 81 of the Constitution here: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Ukraine#Article_81 (number 6). Thus, unelected, Yanukovich usurped the legislature. An analogous situation would be if during an American presidential election the Electors decided to elect the guy who lost the election. The courts whom Yanukovich now controlled then declared that limitations on his power were unconstitutional and granted him wide-ranging powers. His court also removed Article 81. There was no vote by the people giving him such powers.
The unelected pro-Yanukovich legislature then gave itself an extra year in office (signed by Yanukovich) and changed the rules in the next election to make it easier for his party to stay in power. And, in the next parliamentary elections (in 2012) despite winning the popular vote the Opposition failed to gain control over the parliament.
This is the man you want to trust to run free and fair elections in 2015. You want people to play by his rules according to his schedule.
As for protests, people attend them in shifts. There are a couple thousand hardcore members who camp out for weeks or months (mostly students), but many come in for a week or two then return to work. Local Kievans come in, in the afternoon after work. During a period of crisis tweets and emails go out and people rush to the Maidan from their apartments. Locals also volunteer to provide food and provide other aid. Ukrainian banks and credit unions in the diaspora have special accounts where people donate cash to be sent over. Polls show that in central Ukraine (including Kiev) about 60% of the population support the protests so this is not surprising.
Comment by AP — February 22, 2014 @ 7:04 am
@vladislav
I have been through this so many times, with little sovok mouthpieces like you.
Kremlinoid mouthpieces like you want to live in WWII every single day, as if the sovok propaganda about nazis and fascists still has any brainwashing effect over people.
From the very same article that you referred to:
Germans made two political concessions: It was stipulated that the division shall not be used to fight Western Allies, and would be used exclusively to “fight Bolsheviks”. The other concession was in that its oath of allegiance to Hitler was conditional [11] on the fight against Bolshevism and in the fact that Christian (mostly Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church and Ukrainian Orthodox) chaplains were integrated into the units and allowed to function (in the Waffen-SS, only the Bosnian division and Sturmbrigade Wallonien had a clerical presence). The latter condition was instituted at the insistence of the division’s organizers in order to minimize the risk of Nazi demoralization amongst the soldiers.[12][page needed] Indeed, Nazi indoctrination was absent within the division.[13]
Comment by elmer — February 22, 2014 @ 6:53 pm