Streetwise Professor

April 10, 2014

Germany & Russia: Psychology, Ideology, Economics–and Romanticism

Filed under: History,Politics,Russia,Snowden — The Professor @ 7:11 pm

In a sign of the impending apocalypse, Der Spiegel has run several articles that evaluate critically Germany’s all too accepting and “understanding” approach to Russia, including during the Ukraine and Crimea crises. The articles argue that there is a volatile brew of psychology (neuroses, actually), philosophy, and ideology, which when combined with the economic interests of German industry, makes Germany ambivalent at worst about Russia.

World War II of course plays a central role in this. One of the articles notes that the Germans are acutely conscious of the horrific things they did in the East, and that despite that, the Russians do not really hold that over the Germans. This impels the Germans to make amends, and makes them somewhat grateful to the Russians. In contrast American moralism about German actions during the war rankles the Germans deeply: this helps explain why the Germans revel in shrieking about American transgressions, notably Viet Nam and more lately, Snowden. If the Americans are morally tainted, Germans can feel less guilty about their past. (Similar considerations apply with force to German attitudes towards Israel.)

One point that the articles all make is the deep anti-western streak in German thought and attitudes. The similar anti-westernism in Russia, which is central to Putin’s new ideology, therefore resonates deeply in Germany and makes Germans think that Russians are kindred spirits.  These attitudes are particularly pronounced in the former GDR.

More specifically, there is a strong element of anti-Anglo Saxon-ism in both German and Russian thought.

This anti-westernism is rooted in Romanticism. Five years ago, I wrote a post drawing the parallels between the Romantic elements in German and Russian culture and thought.  Here’s a taste:

Following on Pauli, Viereck hypothesizes that German Romanticism was the product of the division of Germany between the Latinized West and the Barbarian East.  That Germany was on the divide between two civilizations with wildly different mental and moral universes.  Romanticism was a revolt of the East against the West.

Russia, too, has a very uneasy, conflicted relationship with the Latinized West.  Indeed, although the dividing line did not run directly through Russia, as it did Germany (thanks to Hermann/Arminius), post-Peter I’s introduction of Western ideas into Muscovy, the same conflict has rent Russia, with many of the same consequences, political and psychological.  The Slavophiles and latterly, the Eurasianists (new and old), are in essence Russia’s indigenous Romantics.  (It is well known that German Romanticism was quite influential in Russia.  I think that this is primarily a matter that the doctrine found very fertile soil waiting for it there.)

In brief, Russia’s conflicted relationship with the West, and the psychological complexes associated therewith, bear uncanny similarities to Germany’s.  Both Germany and Russia lie on civilizational fault lines, and Russia and the non-Romanized parts of Germany were not all that dissimilar in terms of economy and social organization.  It should not be too surprising that each reacted similarly to the onslaught of modernity and the hegemony of the Latinized West, though each of course exhibits its own distinct characteristics.

Similarly, my post On Russophobia I noted the deep anti-liberal strains in Russian thought: similar strains exist in Germany.

If you combine economic interest, latent (and not so latent) guilt, and deep anti-western (and specifically anti-American) sentiments rooted in Romanticism, Germany is entirely unreliable in opposing Putin.

And don’t doubt that Putin hasn’t figured that out, and is planning accordingly. And also don’t doubt that he is playing this for all it is worth. Exhibit A: Snowden.

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49 Comments »

  1. Germany and the Germans have a deep seated cultural bias when it comes to empathising with or even understanding eastern Europeans. Germany’s historical urge to bring order by dividing up its eastern neighbors with its “soulmate” expansionist Russian “frenemy”, stretching back from the times of the Teutonic knights, Germanic derived Czars, Ribbentrop-Molotov pacts, Ostpolitic to today’s gazpromed Shroeders shows an almost genetic disdain for the aspirations of the “lesser” peoples of eastern Europe such as, in this example, the Ukrainians. The viseral German view that these “artificial nations” must either be subsumed or subordinate to one or both of the “great powers” of eastern Europe, regardless of their “inconvenient or inconsequential” interests or national aspirations is a recurring theme in Germanic-Russian relations. Duplicitously and cynically empowering Putin by trading cheap Russian gas and increased sales of luxury vehicles for Ukrainian real estate, whilst claiming the moral high ground of “diplomacy“ and “moderation” is a new low for German self-delusional, self-righteous hypocrisy. If the Germans truly feel that Putin and the Russians are blameless and therefore the reasonable party in the Ukraine scenario, much as were the “oppressed” Germans in 1930′s Austria, Czechoslovakia and Poland, they should offer Putin their own territorial appeasement with the return of his (and little Vlad’s role model hero Max Otto von Sterlitz’s) old nostalgic stomping grounds of East Germany.

    Comment by ramblarou — April 11, 2014 @ 12:30 am

  2. It may be about ancient DNA sequences, but my feel is it’s at least as much about more recent DNA molecules, as in Gestapo->Stasi->GDR political class->German political class.

    As for not holding it over Germans, it is quite understandable: that German lapse into savagery is a unique pretext for the Russians to dismiss their own eternal savagery, “see, we are just like the Germans”. De Custine’s “they would be quite content to be in effect more awful and barbaric than they actually are, if only others could thereby be made to believe them better and more civilized” captures Muscovite psyche just about totally.

    Comment by Ivan — April 11, 2014 @ 2:58 am

  3. I am not sure if “not holding it over Germans” is actually true. As far as I can tell, popular Russian attitudes towards WWII are still pretty much what they were during the war – with all the propaganda about German atrocities held as sacred truth. In the West, the attitudes are much more restrained and the picture of what were the actual crimes of Germans and what is just wartime propaganda, is much clearer.

    Comment by LL — April 11, 2014 @ 4:50 am

  4. @LL, I suspect the Russian popular attitudes manufactured for internal consumption is not what Germans come in contact with all that much. For the vodka-soaked hoi-polloi there is not much difference between fascist Germans, fascist Americans, fascist NATO or fascist [insert enemy du jour]. It’s just a xenophobic archetype, not based on anything concrete (any more).

    Comment by Ivan — April 11, 2014 @ 5:18 am

  5. @Ivan,

    Do you have any studies to support that claim or is De Custine your one and only source of knowledge about Russia? BTW, how many angels can sit on the head of a pin?

    Comment by So? — April 11, 2014 @ 5:54 am

  6. As far as I can tell, popular Russian attitudes towards WWII are still pretty much what they were during the war – with all the propaganda about German atrocities held as sacred truth.

    Yeah, everyone knows that every single Soviet death on the Eastern Front was caused by Stalin personally. The Germans were just passing through… I kid. While there is no official definitive proof of Generalplan Ost, that didn’t hinder the Nazis. After all, there is no definitive evidence of the Final Solution, yet actions speak louder than words.

    Comment by So? — April 11, 2014 @ 6:04 am

  7. @So?, you do realize that you keep proving de Custine deeply insightful with virtually every comment of yours, don’t you?

    Comment by Ivan — April 11, 2014 @ 6:19 am

  8. @Ivan,

    Seek dirt and Ye shall find it. Truer words were never spoken.
    http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Culture/Extras/foreigners.html

    Comment by So? — April 11, 2014 @ 6:43 am

  9. What I found weird in the Spiegel articles was no mention that much of the German atrocities in the Soviet Union occurred in Ukraine. The bulk of the German occupation of the Soviet Union is in territory that is not part of the Russian Federation today – it is in the Baltics, Belarus, and Ukraine. I am not trying to minimize the deaths and harm suffered by Russia, but simply point out to the Germans if it is guilt over their forefathers’ actions in the Soviet Union, then Ukraine deserves just as much sympathy and understanding as Russia.

    Besides, precisely because of the country’s past actions, it is morally important for Germany to deploy its sympathies with the country whose territory is invaded, not with the aggressor.

    Comment by Chris — April 11, 2014 @ 10:52 am

  10. @Chris. All good points. To expand on them, perhaps the fact that the bulk of the atrocities occurred outside of land currently in the RF could explain one of the phenomena mentioned in one of the Der Spiegel articles: that Russians don’t have as personal animus against the Germans. The contrast of Russian attitudes towards Germany contrasts starkly with Chinese and Korean attitudes towards the Japanese. Japanese war crimes have a continuing and profound impact on Chinese and Korean attitudes towards Japan today, and indeed are an ongoing source of major tension between the Chinese and Koreans on the one hand, and the Japanese on the other.

    Further, yes, Ukraine suffered particularly at the hands of the Germans. But it also suffered particularly at the hands of the Russians in the Civil War and the Holodomor. Another reason to give substantial deference to Ukrainian sensitivities when they are under assault from Russia.

    Your last point is the most important. But that plays into the German psychology. Germans want to escape the burden of their guilt. Moral equivalence is one of the ways they do that. By demonizing the US, they draw a moral equivalence between the US and Nazi Germany (not at par, but close), which allows them to say “Germans aren’t worse than anyone else, especially those damned Americans who moralize so much.” Extending sympathies to Ukraine would imply some unique German culpability, which is precisely what they are trying to avoid. You are right that it is morally important, but this is precisely why the Germans shirk from doing it.

    The ProfessorComment by The Professor — April 11, 2014 @ 1:04 pm

  11. Germans trying to escape the burden of their guilt was a large factor behind the prosecution (persecution?)of John Demyanyuk. Pure speculation on my part, but I wonder how much the Germans see the Ukrainians as the moral equivalant to the Nazis, at least on par with the Americans. Could explain a few things.

    Comment by Gordon — April 11, 2014 @ 1:28 pm

  12. @Gordon-a variation on the theme. The more people/nations that can be implicated in atrocities, the less exceptional the Germans look.

    The ProfessorComment by The Professor — April 11, 2014 @ 1:58 pm

  13. Many if not most Ukrainians believe the Soviets damaged Ukraine much more than Nazi Germany damaged Ukraine.

    Comment by pahoben — April 11, 2014 @ 4:34 pm

  14. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_bLYRtV4vk

    Comment by vladislav — April 11, 2014 @ 6:00 pm

  15. @pahoben-Which is why many Ukrainians welcomed the German invasion, and why there was guerrilla resistance to the Soviets in Ukraine after the Germans were driven out.

    The ProfessorComment by The Professor — April 11, 2014 @ 6:19 pm

  16. Awesome:

    http://evreiskiy.kiev.ua/igor-kolomojjskijj-v-majjke-12981.html

    Comment by AP — April 11, 2014 @ 6:27 pm

  17. @ pahoben,

    Ukraine was divided into two administrative units during World War II. Ethnic Ukrainians in the former Austrian province of Galicia were treated relatively well during the occupation – life for them was freer and more pleasant than it had been under the Soviets and probably than it had been under the Poles.

    The rest of Ukraine was treated very brutally – not as badly as in 1932-1933 under Stalin but worse than in the late 1930s under Stalin.

    As a result, attitudes towards the war and towards Germany are understandably different, depending on region. Such attitudes have nothing to do with supposed fascism or communism among residents but actual memories and experiences of their grandparents or parents.

    Comment by AP — April 11, 2014 @ 8:32 pm

  18. AP,

    I have seen this picture before. Interestingly, with the money that they stole from average Ukrainians and Russians, the new oligarch rulers of Ukraine – Kolomoyskiy, Tymoshenko, Poroshenko, Taruta, etc – can easily make this “Jews for Bandera” t-shirt for every Earth inhabitant without making a dent in their coffers.

    BTW, did you hear the latest: last night “Jews for Bandera” broke into the Kiev zoo and organized a regional office of their party there, named: “Rabbits for Pythons and Snakes”.

    Comment by vladislav — April 12, 2014 @ 1:04 am

  19. Last night “Jews for Bandera” broke into the Kiev zoo and organized a regional office of their party there, named: “Rabbits for Pythons and Snakes”, and registered it both as a political party and a zoo catering service.

    Comment by vladislav — April 12, 2014 @ 1:11 am

  20. BTW, even Muscovite propaganda equates Putler with Hitler (“Hitler until 1939” is now a good guy again, as he was back then): http://izvestia.ru/news/568603 . The monument of “Hitler until ’39”, coming soon to a Red Square near you.

    Comment by Ivan — April 12, 2014 @ 2:49 am

  21. Україна має талант / Ukraine’s Got Talent!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl_cEDuB8MA
    Kseniya Simonova
    25,409,860 million views

    Comment by vladislav — April 12, 2014 @ 3:40 am

  22. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%86%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%BE,_%D0%AF%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B2_%D0%A1%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%91%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaroslav_Stetsko

    Yaroslav Stetsko was the leader of the Bandera’s Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN), from 1968 until death. In 1941, during Nazi Germany invasion into the Soviet Union he was the head of the self-proclaimed Ukrainian statehood. Stetsko was the head of the Anti-Bolshevik Bloc of Nations from the time of foundation until 1986, the year of his death.

    “Moscow and Jews are the biggest enemies of Ukraine. So I stand on the positions of the extermination of the Jews and the transfer of the German methods of destruction of Jews to Ukraine. [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10]/Statement of Yaroslav Stetsko, Bandera’s right hand man in OUN(b)/

    On June 25, 1941 Stetsko wrote in his report to Bandera: “We are creating the militia to help clean up the Jews, Ukrainian police to eliminate Jews”[1] [2]

    On May 16, 2007, President of Ukraine Viktor Yushchenko issued a Decree according to which Stetsko’s anniversaries must be celebrated, streets named after him, and opened the Stetsko Museum in Kyiv. [15]

    Currently, Yaroslav Stetsko memorials are erected in the following locations:

    Stryi, Lviv region. A bronze bust on a high granite pedestal.
    Ternopil — a bronze bust on a granite pedestal.
    Kmaenki, Ternopil region. A bronze bust on a high pedestal. Opened in 1995, September 28, 2010 bust has been damaged by vandals, but four months later was completely renovated and reopened January 4, 2011.[16]
    Veliky Glibočok, Ternopil region. Bronze statue on a granite pedestal.
    Volya Zaderevackaâ in the Lviv region. On one of the white-stone steles in the alley fighters for Ukraine’s independence is a bronze bas-relief of Yaroslav Stetsko.

    Comment by vladislav — April 12, 2014 @ 4:01 am

  23. A year ago, President Yanukovich signed an order to give asylum to all Gypsies (Roma) that get deported from the European Union. In WWII Germany exterminated Gypsies like Jews. In 1999, after NATO defeated Serbia, all Kosovar Gypsies (more than 100 000) were ethnically cleansed out of NATo-controlled Kosovo and escaped as homeless refugees to Italy. Now countries like France and Gemrnay want to deport these refugees.

    With Presdient Yanukovich in exile and ultra-nationalists being a major part of the ruling coalition, will the junta renege on Yanukovich’s humanitarian promise?

    http://rbcdaily.ru/world/562949989288102

    Comment by vladislav — April 12, 2014 @ 4:35 am

  24. Be careful vladislav, you are risking to deviate from party line: Zigeunerlager were set up pre-1939, so they must be okay: remember, pre-1939 Hitler was nothing but a great statesman, just like Putin.

    Comment by Ivan — April 12, 2014 @ 9:06 am

  25. “will the junta renege on Yanukovich’s humanitarian promise

    What junta? I didn’t know Ukraine was taken over by the military.

    Look up junta in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

    Junta (/ˈhʊntə/ or /ˈdʒʌntə/) may refer to:

    Governance:
    Military-led government: Military junta (a government led by a committee of military leaders)
    The ruling council of a military dictatorship

    :::::::::::::::

    Seriously, people who refer to the current Ukrainian government as the junta are like Rumsfeld always referring to the Iraqi government as a “regime.” Except the latter was at least accurate.

    Vlad, are you going to start referring to Chicken Kiev as Chicken Freedom?

    More especially for you, Vlad:

    http://evreiskiy.kiev.ua/ukrainskijj-fenomen-evrei-banderovcy-12900.html

    It looks like many Banderists are no longer anti-Semitic. Well, American Democrats are no longer pro-Slavery or the party of Jim Crow, so this should not be very surprising.

    Comment by AP — April 12, 2014 @ 9:21 am

  26. Pleeease. “Junta” is the meme being pushed by Russian propaganda outlets, from Foreign Ministry to media. Vladislav is just a peddler here.

    Comment by LL — April 12, 2014 @ 2:13 pm

  27. > It looks like many Banderists are no longer anti-Semitic.

    And virtually all modern Stalinists are against starving millions of their own people, including Ukrainians, to death. What’s your point? That it’s OK to turn people like Stalin and Stetsko into heroes? Or that modern Stalinists and Banderites are “nice and furry”?

    Comment by vladislav — April 12, 2014 @ 3:23 pm

  28. > What junta? I didn’t know Ukraine was taken over by the military. – See more at: https://streetwiseprofessor.com/?p=8350&cpage=1#comment-124795

    Yes, I have seen your endless linguistic posts to this effect. As always, you use the demagogic trick of deflecting substance arguments in jingoistic jesuistic dead-end nitpicking.

    I ignored your first attempt, but let me reply now:

    “Junta” (“Team” in Spanish) in Ukrainian and Russian (and evidently in Spanish and Portugese) refers not just to a military junta but to a civilian as well. It is the only term that exists for the rulers that come to power as a result of a coup/putsch/revolution:

    http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A5%D1%83%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B0

    Júnta (Spanish junta “Assembly, Committee, Association, [1]) in Spain and Spanish-speaking countries, the word refers to the various organs of State administration, including civil. For example, the junta of General Augusto Pinochet.

    A junta represents a union of several political figures, reminiscent of the Roman triumvirate, though the number of ruling parties is not limited to three. A junta is often created spontaneously, coming to power as a result of revolutions, rallies and mass violence.

    In addition, in a figurative sense, the word “junta” applies to the governments of kleptocratic states with high levels of corruption.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junta_(Peninsular_War)

    In the Napoleonic era, junta (Spanish pronunciation: [ˈxunta]) was the name chosen by several local administrations formed in Spain during the Peninsular War as a patriotic alternative to the official administration toppled by the French invaders. The juntas were usually formed by adding prominent members of society, such as prelates, to the already-existing ayuntamientos (municipal councils). The juntas of the capitals of the traditional peninsular kingdoms of Spain styled themselves “Supreme Juntas,” to differentiate themselves from, and claim authority over, provincial juntas. Juntas were also formed in Spanish America during this period in reaction to the developments in Spain.
    The juntas were not necessarily revolutionary, least of all anti-monarchy or democratically elected. By way of example, the junta in Murcia, comprised the bishop, an archdeacon, two priors, seven members of the old city council, two magistrates, five prominent local aristocrats, including the Conde de Floridablanca (Charles III’s prime minister) and five high-ranking officers (either retired or still serving)

    The term was also used in Spanish America to describe the first autonomist governments established in 1809, 1810 and 1811 in reaction to the developments in Spain. By the time the delegates were to be chosen for the Cádiz Cortes, some of the American provinces had successfully established their own juntas, which did not recognize the authority of either the supreme central one or the regency. Therefore, they did not send representatives to Cádiz, but rather the juntas continued to govern on their own or called for congresses to set up permanent governments. This development resulted in the Spanish American wars of independence.

    ——————————————————————

    While I started using this term “junta” immediately after they came to power in Ukraine, in a matter of days “junta” became the term that almost every democracy-loving person in Ukraine uses as well.

    Comment by vladislav — April 12, 2014 @ 3:42 pm

  29. Vladislav, please don’t smear democracy loving people in Ukraine by association with yourself.

    Interestingly my colleague’s wife is ethnic Russian from Simferopol, her father owns several businesses there, seems the Russian takeover was not anywhere near as popular among anyone with a job or business. His comment “All these drunken idiots who think Tsar Putin is going to come and happily hand out money for them to keep on doing nothing but drink all day” says it all.

    Comment by Andrew — April 12, 2014 @ 11:20 pm

  30. Andrew, you are a pathological liar. Just yesterday I exposed your lie about minority language schools in Russia. But not only is virtually every political and historical fact that you give, a lie, you also lie through your teeth when it comes to your personal life, even though one would expect that you can say anything about your personal experience without us being able to check it. But even with this advantage, you managed to tell us two veritably false stories in one sentence! Namely, in the LaRussophobe you wrote:

    > “My father in law got a scolarship to Moscow University in 1960. He also finished his engineering course top of the class, and was the no.1 engineering student of his graduation year in the USSR.” / Andrew on September 14, 2009 at 8:23 am/

    First, MJ and other Russian readers here will testify that there was no such thing as the selection of “the no.1 engineering student of a graduation year in the USSR.” How would you even try to compare hundreds of thousands of engineering graduates from thousands of colleges in the Soviet Union, a country that occupied 1/6 of the land mass on Earth? And what for?

    Second, Moscow University did NOT have engineering departments. Engineers in the USSR were trained not in Universities but in “Institutes”. There were some 20-30 such institutes in Moscow alone.

    So, please don’t bother inventing endless lies about your “family” and “colleagues”. You are fooling nobody.

    Comment by vladislav — April 13, 2014 @ 4:18 am

  31. Blah blah Vlsdislav.
    It was a translation issue as I said on LR all those years ago.

    My wife said university when she meant institute.

    Comment by Andrew — April 13, 2014 @ 5:07 am

  32. What is “Moscow Institute”?

    Comment by vladislav — April 13, 2014 @ 8:49 am

  33. > It was a translation issue as I said on LR all those years ago. My wife said university when she meant institute.

    Oh, I see. And when your wife said: “There was no such thing as the no.1 engineering student of a graduation year in the USSR”, you interpreted this as “My father in law was the no.1 engineering student of his graduation year in the USSR”? 🙂

    And when your colleague said: ““All these hard working Russian-Crimean stiffs who think President Putin is going to come and help them catch up economically to Russia and to help them to keep on doing nothing but work all day”, you interpreted it as: “All these drunken idiots who think Tsar Putin is going to come and happily hand out money for them to keep on doing nothing but drink all day”? 🙂

    The bottom line is: either you cite verifiable evidence that Crimeans drink more than Ukrainians, or you go shove your unverifiable “personal stories” about your construction worker “colleagues” where the sun don’t shine.

    You are a proven pathological liar, and the only claims from you that can be trusted are those that are citations of reliable sources.

    Comment by vladislav — April 13, 2014 @ 9:03 am

  34. And, BTW, let me cite the excuse that you gave for your lies earlier:

    > No, as explained at the time, mistranslation from my wife. Moscow Institute of Technology, which I had assumed was a university Engineering faculty, such as the Institute of Engineering, Auckland University. My father in law did however to his year for Engineering, electrical, and production engineering.

    So, what is this mysterious “Moscow Institute of Technology”? MIT? Massachusetts Institute of Technology?

    And what does the mysterious sentence: “My father in law did however to his year for Engineering, electrical, and production engineering” mean if you translate it from Andrew-speak into English?

    Let me quote Mark Twain: “When in doubt, tell the truth. Truth is easier to remember”.

    Comment by vladislav — April 13, 2014 @ 9:17 am

  35. And what is this mysterious “the Institute of Engineering, Auckland University”? Did you mean “Faculty of Engineering, The University of Auckland”? And whose fault is it that you misspoke this time? Your Georgian wife’s again? Your Georgian father’s-in-law? Devil made you do it? 🙂

    http://www.engineering.auckland.ac.nz/uoa/

    The Faculty of Engineering at the University of Auckland is committed to creating an environment where people thrive and contribute to improving the quality of life in national and global communities, as well as enhancing the wealth creation of the nation, through excellence in teaching, research and service.

    Comment by vladislav — April 13, 2014 @ 9:32 am

  36. What do you think of this claim:

    http://www.interpressnews.ge/en/politicss/56508-tristan-tsitelashvili–four-from-the-snipers-shooting-at-people-in-kiev-were-georgians.html?ar=A

    Tristan Tsitelashvili – Four from the snipers shooting at people in Kiev were Georgians

    Snipers shooting at people in Kiev Maidan were under the command of Mikheil Saakashvili, the ex-President of Georgia, the general of Georgian army, former commander of battalion “Avaza” Tristan Tsitelashvili told Russian media.

    Tsitelashvili says that four Georgian snipers took part in the protests, who were there by the directives of National Movement. “I know the identity of the four people who were there, as snipers, but I can’t name them as investigation is under way. The materials of the probe will be sent to the prosecutor’s office in two weeks. I can tell you that these people were the former officials under Saakashvili government. The previous government trained them for such cases. Their teams in Kiev were led by Givi Targamadze and Gia Baramidze”, Tsitelashvili said.

    Comment by vladislav — April 13, 2014 @ 8:17 pm

  37. Considering he was talking to Russian media I’d say it was suspect.

    As to the department/school/institute/faculty of engineering, it’s been called all of those Vladislav, Auckland University has a rather annoying habit of changing the names of it’s departments. What you call it depends on when you attended. When I started it was the school of engineering, it was called an institute when I graduated, became a school again after legal action from Auckland Technical Institute, and is now called a faculty.

    Comment by Andrew — April 13, 2014 @ 10:13 pm

  38. Furthermore, Tsitelashvili has been living in Russia since the 90s.

    I’d be interested to know where he got his supposedly detailed information.

    After all Russian media also claimed swine flu was developed at the CDC built by the US in Tbilisi as a weapon to attack Russia.

    Comment by Andrew — April 13, 2014 @ 10:25 pm

  39. Of course now Auckland University has muddied the waters further by having the Institute of Earth Science and Engineering, but that’s New Zealand tertiary institutes for you. Just take another institute I studied at for example. Carrington technical college/Carrington Polytechnic/Auckland University of Technology/Unitech….. change for it’s own sake

    Comment by Andrew — April 13, 2014 @ 10:34 pm

  40. > Furthermore, Tsitelashvili has been living in Russia since the 90s.

    If so, that would indeed make his knowledge suspect.

    Comment by vladislav — April 14, 2014 @ 4:37 am

  41. Andrew, please provide references for this statement:

    > Furthermore, Tsitelashvili has been living in Russia since the 90s.

    Wasn’t he a Georgian participant in the war of August 2008?

    Comment by vladislav — April 14, 2014 @ 4:45 am

  42. Andrew> Furthermore, Tsitelashvili has been living in Russia since the 90s.

    The problem, Andrew, is that Tsitelashvili was still in the Georgian army during the August 2008 war:

    http://ru.saqinform.ge/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12714%3A—–l———-r——-&catid=37%3Ainterviu1#axzz2z7rdG6fu

    Грузия, 9 апреля, ГРУЗИНФОРМ. В гостях у ГРУЗИНФОРМ – генерал Тристан Цителашвили, ветеран абхазской войны, командир боевого подразделения «Аваза», участник августовской войны и бывший политзаключенный «Нацдвижения».

    წყარო/Source: http://ru.saqinform.ge/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12714%3A—–l———-r——-&catid=37%3Ainterviu1&Itemid=396#ixzz2z7rWElcx

    So, you lied again. Right after you tried to explain your previous lies!

    – See more at: https://streetwiseprofessor.com/?p=8357&cpage=1#comment-124993

    Comment by vladislav — April 17, 2014 @ 1:23 am

  43. You see, Andrew, Georgia has too many creative people: movie directors, artists, actors, scientists, gangsters, composers, businessmen, etc. There aren’t enough jobs for them in the tiny Georgia. Georgia would benefit from a re-union with Russia more than any other ex-USSR republic. Recall how wealthy and successful Georgians were as part of the Soviet Union.

    Comment by vladislav — April 19, 2014 @ 1:48 am

  44. In fact, ALL ex-Soviet republics, other than the Baltics and West Ukraine, would greatly benefit from the re-unification.

    Comment by vladislav — April 19, 2014 @ 1:50 am

  45. Or from joining the Customs Union.

    Comment by vladislav — April 19, 2014 @ 1:53 am

  46. Georgia is to Russia what Mexico is to the USA: they may resent the domination, but they greatly benefit from the Big Brother.

    Comment by vladislav — April 19, 2014 @ 1:56 am

  47. Professor,

    I am just your libertarian (sub)conscience. Just like every sinner has to face his saintly subconsciousness, every American journalist, politician, “expert”, advocating geopolitical expediency over libertarian righteousness, knows deep inside that he is committing a crime.

    The end does not justify the means. You cannot spread the American influence the way rats spread the plague. You can not impose democracy through juntas; impose constitution and law by breaking them; fight government corruption by appointing corrupt oligarchs to rule the government; enforce the freedom of speech by shutting the mouths of your opponents; fight for peace by waging wars of aggression; spread the freedom of the press by bombing TV towers; fight for humanity by torturing prisoners; and finally (for the US media and politicians): fight for the “truth” by spreading lies, i.e., fight for pravda (truth) by imitating the Soviet-era “Pravda”.

    Comment by vladislav — April 21, 2014 @ 1:57 pm

  48. ““Junta” (“Team” in Spanish) in Ukrainian and Russian (and evidently in Spanish and Portugese) refers not just to a military junta but to a civilian as well. It is the only term that exists for the rulers that come to power as a result of a coup/putsch/revolution

    Sorry, we are writing in the English language here. It’s just a buzzword whose purpose is to avoid the word “government.” Like “insurgance” rather than “resistence” in Iraq. You are becoming another Rumsfeld, vladislav. A Russian one.

    “While I started using this term “junta” immediately after they came to power in Ukraine, in a matter of days “junta” became the term that almost every democracy-loving person in Ukraine uses as well

    Yes, as freedom-loving as the guys who renamed French fries Freedom Fries.

    Comment by AP — April 22, 2014 @ 4:47 pm

  49. > Look up junta in Wiktionary, the free dictionary. Junta – Military-led government: Military junta (a government led by a committee of military leaders)

    Look up junta in webster’s new world college dictionary:

    http://www.yourdictionary.com/junta

    junta [ho̵on′tə, jun′-, jo̵on′-]

    noun
    an assembly or council; esp., a Spanish or Latin American legislative or administrative body
    a group of political intriguers; esp., such a group, of military men in power after a coup d’état

    > Sorry, we are writing in the English language here.

    OK, AP, since you are a bigger expert on English than Webster’s, teach me, what term should I use in English for you to denote a group of political intriguers that illegally replaced the existing democratically elected government? Is “gang” acceptable, or does it too apply only to military juntas, in you mind?

    Comment by vladislav — April 22, 2014 @ 10:16 pm

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