Streetwise Professor

February 24, 2014

Another Page From the South Ossetia/Abkhazia Playbook

Filed under: History,Military,Politics,Russia — The Professor @ 8:39 pm

Russia is distributing passports in Crimea. Particularly ominous in light of Medvedev’s shrieks about Ukrainian oppression of “Russians.”  This was a Russian stratagem before the Russo-Georgian War, allowing Russia to claim that it was invading to protect Russian citizens.

Russian special forces reinforce Sevastopol, and adjacent areas on the Russian coastline:

Russia’s large landing ship Nikolai Filchenkov has arrived near the Russia Black Sea Fleet’s base at Sevastopol, which Russia has leased from Ukraine since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991.

The ship is reported to be carrying as many as 200 soldiers and has joined four additional ship carrying an unknown amount of Special Forces troops. also reported over the weekend that personnel from the 45th Airborne Special Forces unit and additional divisions had been airlifted into Anapa, a city on Russia’s Black Sea coastline.

Again, Russian armed intervention is not ordained.  But Putin and the Ставка are assembling the forces, and building the case to use them.

But I’m sure one more Kerry call to Lavrov will make everything copacetic.

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  1. The issuing of Russian passports in Abkhazia and South Ossetia by Russia was without Georgian government permission was found to be illegal under international law by the IFFC that investigated the origins of the war.

    I would suggest the government of Ukraine is well within it’s rights to revoke Ukrainian citizrnship and deny residency rights to anyone who receives these passports

    Comment by Andrew — February 24, 2014 @ 10:48 pm

  2. There’s no reason the Crimea should be part of the Ukraine anyways. It’s all Russians, and only part of Ukraine because of Khrushchev back in the 1950s. There’s no real historical reason why it should stay part of it, no sense of Ukrainian identity on the part of the Crimeans. Ukraine should just cut it lose.

    Comment by Brett — February 24, 2014 @ 10:50 pm

  3. Every country has a full right to give its citizenship to whomever it likes. Here in the USA, if you were born in the USA or if your parents were American citizens, your US citizenship is virtually automatic. since mot Ossetians, Abhazians and Ukrainians were born in the Soviet Union, they have an automatic right to citizenship in the Russian Federation, the legal successor of the Soviet Union. And many Crimeans were born not simply in the USSR but in hte Crimean region of the Russian Federation, before the crazy Communist dictator hrushef “gifted” Crimea to his beloved Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic in mid-1950s, just as his predecessor Comrade Stalin committed even more such crimes, e.g.:

    – annexed the Baltics
    – “gifted” Abkhazia to his beloved Georgia
    – annexed West Ukraine and forced it into submission to the Ukrainian SSR
    – forcibly annexed Moldova from Romania
    – stole Transdniestria from Ukraine and “gifted” it to Moldova right after he stole the latter from Romania (as a consolation prize?).

    Isn’t it high time that the remaining of these Communist crimes be reversed and the historical and cultural order be restored?

    Comment by vladislav — February 24, 2014 @ 11:28 pm

  4. Professor,

    You hate everything Soviet. Ukraine is a 100% Soviet creation. Shouldn’t this chimera be consigned to the dustbin of history once and for all? You weren’t agitating for Yugoslavia to be kept together, were you?

    Comment by So? — February 25, 2014 @ 1:26 am

  5. Russia cannot afford another adventure similar to Aug 2008. It took Russia 3 years to prepare for the war with Georgia and concentration of most of its capable military on the border (including mobilization of something like 70% of its air force capable of flying at all).

    Ukrainian army is 5 times the size of the Georgian and has a lot of hardware. So it’s not going to be a pleasant stroll. Besides, it seems that the West will not be able to stay out of it (due to the location and other factors). Georgia also might use the opportunity to hit Russians in South Ossetia at least to regain back at least some of its occupied territories.

    This all given, any kind of military confrontation in Crimea (or elsewhere in Ukraine with whatever the pretext) is, IMHO, going to be a suicide of the Putin’s regime possibly leading to splitting of Russia in two or many peaces (what will Chinese do?).

    Any kind of Russian military action in Ukraine will present the West with window of opportunity to do away with Russia once and for all.

    Comment by Misha — February 25, 2014 @ 2:02 am

  6. Russia cannot afford another adventure similar to Aug 2008. It took Russia 3 years to prepare for the war with Georgia and concentration of most of its capable military on the border (including mobilization of something like 70% of its air force capable of flying at all).

    Replace Russia with Georgia and the statement becomes correct. I remember Georgians bragging on the interwebz in 2006-2007 how they’ll be in Stravropol in a week, how professional their army is, trained by Israeilis, etc., etc.. These professionals got their asses handed to them by a bunch of conscripts.

    Comment by So? — February 25, 2014 @ 2:19 am

  7. Sigh, Vladislav, I know you have a very limited understanding of history, but Abkhazia has been part of Georgia for around 2000 years.

    As part of the Kingdom of Colchis, as part of the kingdom of Abkhazia-Egrisi, as part of the kingdom of Imereti.
    It has also been a separate principality, as were Svaneti, Racha, and most other parts of Georgia when the united kingdom collapsed under external pressure.
    As part of the governerate of Kutaisi until the 1890’s when Russia split it off.
    Interesting to note that Abkhazians preferred to join Georgia in 1917, and also note that Abkhazians consist of several ethnicities, and have done so for pretty much all of recorded history.

    As to Stalin “gifting his beloved Georgia” Abkhazia, well he actually reduced the size of the country considerably, cutting off parts and giving them to Russia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Turkey, mostly to punish Georgia for failing to embrace him and Russian communism after the invasion of 1921 and the subsequent rebellions that lasted until the late 30’s.

    Not to mention the six attempts by Georgians and Abkhaz to assassinate Stalin. Funny how the Russians never tried.

    BTW, moron, it was Khrushchev who gifted Crimea to Ukraine in 1954. Stalin died in 1953.

    As usual your grasp of history is lacking.

    Comment by Andrew — February 25, 2014 @ 2:26 am

  8. That’s all well and good, but why did Abkhazia try to secede from Georgia immediately after the collapse of the Union? (inb4 “evil Russians made them”, Russia was prostrate and bankrupt in 1992).

    Comment by So? — February 25, 2014 @ 2:33 am

  9. And no, distributing passports upon the territory of a sovereign state by a foreign power is illegal without the sovereign states approval.

    If people want to travel to Russia to get Russian passports that is their business, but Russia cannot hand them out wholesale in another country, without that country’s permission.

    Comment by Andrew — February 25, 2014 @ 2:35 am

  10. So? A minority of the population did so with massive Russian assistance, with Russian forces directly involved in ethnic cleansing of the population loyal to Tbilisi.

    Russia may have been “prostrate and bankrupt” in 92, but their military was certainly active in the war on the separatist side, such as the black sea fleet bombarding Sokhumi, the use of frontal aviation to support the separatists, and the direct involvement of Russian army units on the separatist side. Seems Russia found enough money for that.

    Russia wanted to punish Georgia for being one of the states that, along with the Baltics, collapsed the USSR.

    Also the separatism was not until after the Russians helped roll Gamsakhurdia and installed Sheverdnadze.
    A lot of Abkhaz were worried they would lose status as a destination for Russian tourists if Georgia became fully independent.

    Funnily enough there are a lot of Apsu Abkhazians in Georgia now, the Russians are not popular there at all with the younger section of the population. Russia is performing a slow genocide of the Apsu people in Abkhazia, at least according to the Abkhaz I know.

    As they say, Georgia just needs to keep on developing it’s economy and pluralistic democracy, and the Abkhaz will be back.

    Comment by Andrew — February 25, 2014 @ 2:43 am

  11. It’s more like So? is 100% Soviet creation and should be consigned to the dustbin of history. Ukraine is an old European nation in whose history the disaster of Soviet occupation is but a painful episode. Before the Muscovite hordes, there were other similar hordes at Ukraine’s frontiers, inflicting similar damage, yet they are all history now. Comes with the territory.

    Comment by Ivan — February 25, 2014 @ 3:19 am

  12. > Russia cannot afford another adventure similar to Aug 2008.

    Of course not. In 2008 Saakashvili, in his miscalculation htat the US will send the military to help him out, attacked S. Ossetia, allowing Putin to teach him a good lesson.

    Ukraine, on the other hand, not only hasn’t attacked any of its neighbors but lives in good harmony with them all.

    Comment by vladislav — February 25, 2014 @ 3:28 am

  13. I wrote:

    >> the crazy Communist dictator Hrushef “gifted” Crimea to his beloved Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic in mid-1950s, just as his predecessor Comrade Stalin committed even more such crimes…

    Andrew attacked in his usual manner:

    > BTW, moron, it was Khrushchev who gifted Crimea to Ukraine in 1954. Stalin died in 1953. As usual your grasp of history is lacking.

    Here is yet another example, Andrew, why I find it impossible to have discussions with you. I have better chances to be understood by a 3-year-old child with an age-adjusted IQ of 90.

    Comment by vladislav — February 25, 2014 @ 3:35 am

  14. Listen Vladislav, your writing style and spelling leave a great deal to be desired. I apologize for my misreading of your poorly worded comment. Anyway, how about you comment on the marked reduction in territory of Georgia under Stalin? Kind of puts a hole in your argument.

    Stalin loved Russia, not Georgia.

    Anyway, in 2008 it was the Russian backed separatists that started attacking, as early as June. No matter what the Georgians did the Russians were coming ready or not.

    Note the IFFC found that the Russians and Ossetians had committed numerous violations before the Georgians retaliated. They also found the Georgian targets in Tskhinvali were legitimate, but the weapons used to attack them (grads) were not. Of course, the Russians bombarded Tskhinvali with far heavier concentrations of grads and other artillery for 3 days…. but there you go.

    The Russian government (in direct violation of it’s own agreements) had been supplying and training separatist forces, as well as leading them in action.

    Furthermore Vladislav, I know you are a hypocrite, but please explain why you argue it is OK for Russia to crush Chechen separatism using totally indiscriminate force, up to and including mass murder of civilians, but not OK for Georgia to target separatist military forces who are attacking Georgian civilians?

    Also note, before you go off on a “Georgians committed genocide” or “Georgians attacked Russian peacekeepers” rant, that the IFFC found no evidence whatsoever that the Georgians deliberately targetted Ossetian civilians, or attempted a genocide in any form as was claimed by Russia, or that they targeted Russian peacekeeping troops, the Russian government refused to provide any evidence of the latter, and all claims of the former were found to be untrue.

    Also note, Khrushchev was an ethnic Russian, I doubt his gifting of Crimea to Ukraine was intended to do anything other than increase the Russian percentage of the population in the republic, that and be a time bomb in case of any push for Ukrainian independence.

    @So? Actually the Russians collected pretty much all their “Kontrakti” professionals for the invasion, they outnumbered the Georgians by at least 4 to 1 in infantry alone, and considerably worse ratios hampered the Georgians in artillery and armor, the Russians deployed over 300 T-72s while the Georgians had around 24 in the conflict zone, even then the Georgians won the only tank to tank fight near the train station in Tskhinvali, and it was the fact the Russians attacked the Georgians after they started withdrawing as part of the ceasefire agreement brokered by France that gave them the overall win. Of course Russians are not good at honoring agreements as the Georgians well know.

    Also note the Georgians pretty much won the air superiority battle, Russian pilots ended up refusing to fly due to their losses. Unfortunately if you lose on the ground, you lose.

    Comment by Andrew — February 25, 2014 @ 4:08 am

  15. Andrew,

    I have nothing to discuss with you. You can’t argue. Aside from your reading comprehension disability, you reduce every argument to childish insults and personal attacks, which makes your disability much less sympathetic.

    Comment by vladislav — February 25, 2014 @ 4:15 am

  16. Russia had at least as much right to award Russian citizenship to whomever it pleases in the Republic of Abkhazia without asking Saakashvili’s permission, as the USA – the right to give US citizenship to whomever it pleases in the Republic of Kosovo without asking the President of Serbia’s permission, or to give US citizenship to whomever it pleases in the Chinese Republic of Taiwan without asking permission from Communist China. In reality – much more legal right.

    Comment by vladislav — February 25, 2014 @ 4:25 am

  17. Hah, given your lack of historical knowledge, and violent racism towards Georgians and other non slavs, I well remember your descriptions of Georgians as animals on LR, and your intense hatred of ethnic Ukrainians.

    Anyway Vladimir, as you won’t answer the question, I guess you have no answer.

    Come on Vladimir, why is Russia allowed to massacre civilians in “self defence and preservation of territorial integrity” but Georgia is not allowed to? Your hypocrisy is fairly sickening.

    As to the rights and wrongs of passport handing out, I don’t agree with anyone being able to do it without the relevant government permission.

    Two wrongs don’t make a right.

    Comment by Andrew — February 25, 2014 @ 4:43 am

  18. That should read Georgia is not allowed to defend it’s territorial integrity with any military action at all?

    Anyway Vladimir, your arguments are, as usual, hypocritical, poorly argued, full of inconsistencies, and rehashed Putin propaganda.

    BTW, explain to me why so many ethnic Ossetians have been leaving South Ossetia for Tbilisi?

    Comment by Andrew — February 25, 2014 @ 5:13 am

  19. Andrew, my guess is that Vladimir (whoever he is) will not engage in this insult- and lie-fest with you either.

    Comment by vladislav — February 25, 2014 @ 5:21 am

  20. I think Ukraine should simply name the price for Crimea, if Russia is so willing to buy it. $100 bn sounds about right – it is only 5 times what Facebook just paid for WhatsApp, after all…

    Comment by LL — February 25, 2014 @ 5:23 am

  21. What lies Vladislav? Unfortunately my mobile annoyingly auto-corrects your latest name. Besides it doesn’t matter, you’ll just change it again soon to try and make it look like others share your fairly sad world view.

    Russia committed an actual genocide in Chechnya, by any reasonable interpretation of the term.
    Even members of Kadyrov’s government put the loss at around 250,000 dead. From a small population of around 500,000 to 600,000 ethnic Chechens, that is pretty bad.

    Russia uses massive military force against any form of separatism whatsoever, and this is well supported by a population that is inherently racist towards non Russians.

    Georgia did not commit a genocide in South Ossetia or Abkhazia, but the Russians, in concert with their separatist allies most certainly did.

    But of course, Russia does not consider that any of it’s former imperial possessions, be they Ukraine, Georgia, the Baltic republics etc, have any right to sovereignty, democratic government, economic reform, or even their own languages being paramount in their territorial area.

    Georgia was much larger before Stalin and his cronies punished it for it’s temerity in standing up to Russia and communism.
    Large portions were handed off to Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Russia, previously non existent political entities such as South Ossetia were created in non Russian republics as time bombs, ways to destabilize those countries if they ever tried to take the exit from the USSR.

    This was the reason for Khrushchev (you could at least learn to spell his name right), an ethnic Russian, deciding to load the Ukrainian SSR with even more ethnic Russians.

    Comment by Andrew — February 25, 2014 @ 5:34 am

  22. So? As far as I remember, the only one who was hit in his ass in Aug 2008 was the commander of the Russian 58th Army, Lieutenant General Anatolyi Nikolaevich Khrulev. Apparently it took him a few months for his ass to be fixed.

    Comment by Misha — February 25, 2014 @ 5:36 am

  23. > What lies Vladislav?

    For example these slanderous and libelous lies:

    > your lack of historical knowledge, and violent racism towards Georgians and other non slavs, I well remember your descriptions of Georgians as animals on LR, and your intense hatred of ethnic Ukrainians.

    Would you care to give proof to these libelous accusations?

    I gave you 2 reasons why I will never engage in political discussions with you:

    1. Your mathematical, logical and reading disabilities
    2. You constantly and unprovoked engage in insulting and smearing your opponents

    The third reason is:

    3. You are a liar

    What’s worse, you combine 2 and 3 and engage in:

    3a. As soon as anybody engages in a discussion with you, you heave at them the most vicious accusations that, if true, make them look like criminals.

    There is a Russian saying “Не трогай г., чтобы не воняло”: “If you don’t want a stink, don’t touch feces”. In this case, my hard-learned rule is: “Don’t touch Andrew, if you don’t want to be drowning in the liquid feces that he will heave at you”.

    You have just falsely accused me of racism. I dare you to provide relevant quotes, lowlife liar.

    Comment by vladislav — February 25, 2014 @ 5:54 am

  24. Oooh Vladislav, truth hurts you I see.

    Pleas provide evidence of my “lies” as you see them, regarding politics and history, particularly that of the Caucasus.
    I asked you to provide me with evidence of lying, you did not do so. Your false accusation begat my accusation of your racism

    Actually your posts are more like verbal explosive diarrhea.

    You smear your opponents (including me) with some pretty nasty accusations yourself. At least I just call you a hypocrite, though a retarded Russian imperialist might be a better description.

    So Vladislav, put up or shut up.

    On a further note, an economic study has shown that the Russian areas of the Ukraine actually contribute little to the state budget, and are in fact a financial drain.

    Perhaps it might be in the interests of the real Ukrainians to excise the cancer and give them to Russia to deal with?

    Then the Ukrainians can get on with building a democratic and prosperous Ukraine, while the Russian part joins most of Russia in descending further into corruption, autocracy, and poverty for the masses.

    Comment by Andrew — February 25, 2014 @ 6:14 am

  25. Today February 25th is the 93rd anniversary of the invasion and occupation of Georgia by the forces of Russia in 1921.

    At this time Russia still occupies 20% of internationally recognised Georgian sovereign territory, has conducted ethnic cleansing of Georgians from most of those territories, and persecutes any who remain, such as the population of Gali and Omchamchire who suffer from suppression of their language and political and legal rights.

    Russia is intent on destabilising Georgia, just as it is intent on destabilising Ukraine, in order to further it’s imperial ambitions.

    Comment by Andrew — February 25, 2014 @ 7:31 am


    Comment by elmer — February 25, 2014 @ 9:06 am

  27. Andrew (and SWP)

    Comment by elmer — February 25, 2014 @ 9:07 am

  28. Russia didn’t invade, it had UN peacekeepers there.. as mandated by the UN.
    When Georgia started the invasion, then Russia was allowed to transfer more soldiers to bolster the existent peace forces.

    South Ossetia is literally next-door to North Ossetia in Russia, and Georgia is literally next-door to Russia. Of course there will be citizens of both countries right across the border from one another.

    You article using words like “screeching” and what not shows you have a very biased view, and are trying to peddle a fictional story that you want. Please consider revising your thought and writting process in the future.

    Comment by Mike — February 25, 2014 @ 11:03 am

  29. Ukraine is not a creation of the Soviet Union. It has age old roots. The Ukrainian cultural renaissance of the 19th and early 20th centuries that resulted in the short lived Ukrainian states of the Russian Civil War era were based on the heritage of earlier states. The last independent Ukrainian states were the Cossack Hetmanate and Zaporizhian Sich. Prior to that, Ukrainians were a distinct people in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Before that, it was embodied in the Kingdom of Galicia–Volhynia (among others) which was a successor state to the old Principality of Kiev which fell to the Mongols.

    “Ukraine” or “Ukrainian” as a name might be a modern name, but as a people, the Ukrainians are quite old and have had their own states and culture different from the rest of the Eastern Slavs. Its history of strong contact with the Latin West and Cossack heritage created a distinct culture from the Russians. One only needs to look how Ivan Mazepa is viewed by both Ukrainian and Russian nationals to see there is a big cultural difference. That previous states were not called Ukraine is no different than the people of Britain tracing their English heritage to the Kingdoms of Mercia, Wessex, or Northumberland.

    Lenin simply recognized that Ukrainian nationalism was an independent fact, and that if the Soviet Union was to survive, it had to acknowledge that along with the other large ethnic groups with independent nationalist desires. The same reason is why the Kerensky government recognized Ukraine as an autonomous part of Russia. That is why Ukraine began as one of the Soviet republics in the old USSR. But if the Communists had failed to conquer Ukraine, the independent Ukrainian People’s Republic would have remained with around the same borders.

    That Russia and Ukraine share a common heritage no more means that Moscow must control Ukraine than it means Russia should recognize Ukraine as its suzerain because that’s how it was back in Kievan Rus.

    Comment by Chris — February 25, 2014 @ 11:57 am

  30. Andrew,

    I have looked through the flow of words in your posts but found no evidence from you that supports your slanderous and libelous lies:

    > your violent racism towards Georgians and other non slavs, I well remember your descriptions of Georgians as animals on LR, and your intense hatred of ethnic Ukrainians.

    Until I see that, I bid you good-bye, although I reserve the right to repeat this particular post until you provide your evidence or admit that you are a libelous lying scum.

    Comment by vladislav — February 25, 2014 @ 1:18 pm

  31. Wow! Popcorn anybody? Maybe some hot tamales?

    Comment by EconMaestro — February 25, 2014 @ 9:44 pm

  32. Hot potatoes.

    Comment by vladislav — February 26, 2014 @ 2:23 am

  33. Professor,

    What do you think of Obama’s treasonous decision to abandon the time-venerated “fight two wars at the same time” doctrine? Can our country’s elite survive if we invade only one country at any given time?

    What is worse is that Obama is abandoning the policy of spending more money on the military than the rest of the world combined. What will that lead to? What will happen if a Republican President decides to wage a war on the rest of the world?

    Will the stockholders at Halliburton, Lockheed etc. be able to maintain their lifestyles? Will the taxpayers become too wealthy to the point of being able to afford medical care and even (puke!) decent education for their children? Will our elected officials lose their campaign contributions and lose their cushy positions? Will the long-awaited default of the Treasury be delayed by reckless military budget cuts? Let us all get behind Fox News and the Republican Party and say a resounding “No!” to the treasonous idea of tax cuts and budget balancing that Obama is perpetrating! Say “Yes!” on the military job creators, including coffin makers and funeral directors!

    Comment by vladislav — February 26, 2014 @ 6:53 am

  34. Give war a chance!

    Comment by vladislav — February 26, 2014 @ 7:08 am

  35. ah Vladislav/Mr X/Ostap Bender, such a tirade.

    of course I guess you prefer another 100,000 unemployed, closures of small businesses from loss of income due to the closure of bases that support entire communities, of course there will be layoffs in defence related industries as well, which will effect other communities as well, and so on.

    Of course it also makes it easier for your heroes Putin, the Ayatollahs, Assad etc to go on killing large numbers of those you consider undesirable.

    Comment by Andrew — February 26, 2014 @ 9:23 am

  36. Andrew,

    At the risk of breaking my promise not to engage in political discussions with you, let me still ask you an economics question:

    Your own country of New Zealand devotes 1.1% of its GDP to military spending and is 66th in the world.

    My country of the USA devotes exactly 4 times more: 4.4% of its GDP to military spending.

    Do you really think that if New Zealand quadrupled its military spending by reducing its output of commercial products in order to make lots of tanks, bombs and fighter planes, New Zealand’s economy will greatly benefit and improve?

    Comment by vladislav — February 26, 2014 @ 7:46 pm

  37. Economy of scale Vladislav, smaller countries can’t compete with the US/China in the production of high end equipment, but NZ does produce uniforms, fire control computers for artillery etc.
    In the areas NZ can supply itself, there would be economic benefits.

    In the US, unfortunately for your argument, there would be very few economic benefits and a great deal of hardship caused by a large cut to military personnel and spending.

    Not to mention the emboldening of people like Putin/Assad/and other assorted dictators.
    Which would then require a much greater effort and even more hardship to rectify.

    It would be nice if it was otherwise, but unfortunately that is the way it is.

    Comment by Andrew — February 27, 2014 @ 7:46 am

  38. I recommend this clip:
    I think the episode effective the 17th minute is especially valuable in view of the shamelessness of some in this thread.

    Comment by MJ — February 27, 2014 @ 1:39 pm

  39. Andrew,

    If you don’t understand that a country does better by investing in its infrastructure and education or by selling high-tech products to other countries, instead of wasting taxpayer money on useless tanks and fighter planes, I can’t help you. I hope you are not planning to quit your job in construction for a career in mathematical economics.

    Comment by vladislav — February 28, 2014 @ 5:20 am

  40. While there are people like your hero Putin in the world, countries like Russia, North Korea, Iran etc, then tanks and fighter planes are not in any way useless.

    Of course you’d love western nations and former Soviet republics to be defenceless in the face of Russian agression, but we all know you are a Quisling.

    Comment by Andrew — February 28, 2014 @ 10:37 am

  41. Also Vladislav, do you have any real concept of the technology that goes into tanks and fighters these days?

    You don’t design them by being uneducated.

    In addition, most of the tech you use has come from systems developed for the military.

    I know you hold servicemen and women in contempt, well American, western, Ukrainian, Georgian etc (not your precious Russians of course) so I guess you’ll be happy to see them all out on the street.

    Not to mention all the staff of companies that service the military, and provide services for military personnel and their families.

    I certainly hope you are not actually an economist. If you are it might explain the recent failures however.

    Comment by Andrew — February 28, 2014 @ 10:51 am

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