Streetwise Professor

April 20, 2022

Moskva Update. (It’s still on the bottom)

Filed under: Military,Russia,Ukraine — cpirrong @ 11:18 am

The early Russian story regarding the Moskva’s fate was that it sank in “stormy seas” or “heavy seas.” Well, pictures have emerged that show . . . now brace yourselves for this! . . . that the Russians are full of shit.

The sea is like glass. Other reports (including those from the US) said that bad weather obscured satellite and aerial imaging. Well, there is high overcast, but nothing that would prevent real time observation of the aftermath of the strike.

From the images, it does not appear that the P-1000 Vulkan ASM mounted so prominently on the deck were hit, or exploded. The hits appear to have occurred on the superstructure, although the list could have been due to a waterline hit. Alternatively, the list could have been due to the explosion of ammunition stowed in the magazines below deck.

The fire appears to have been very severe, and was obviously not extinguished before the ship was abandoned. The smoke appears even heavier in other images. (Helluva lot of good those two water cannon are doing there.)

Of course it is impossible to judge the condition of the inside of the ship from these photos in order to determine whether it should have been possible to save it. The external view shows less apparently less damage than on the USS Stark, which was also struck in the superstructure. (And to correct my earlier post, the Stark was hit by two Exocets, which BTW had warheads about 10 pct larger than the Ukrainian Neptunes.) So the inability to save the Moskva remains something of a puzzle.

Not that we will ever get the straight dope from the Russians on this.

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  1. Hmmm. Even there usual support shi, a tug, couldn’t get them out of this one.

    This bring up the existential question, what’s the Kuznetzov up to?

    Comment by Sotosy1 — April 20, 2022 @ 11:34 am

  2. Ship not shi.. stupid IPHONE keypad!

    Comment by Sotosy1 — April 20, 2022 @ 11:35 am


    Comment by Crowhouse — April 20, 2022 @ 12:42 pm

  4. Note the soot marks from the high level port holes in the Tweet photo. Must have been one helluva fire – unsurprising most of the crew succumbed. Also buckling and crimping of the superstructure is evident, suggesting a rather large explosion.

    If this is the point of impact, it’s exactly where the twin mid-deck CIWS are licated

    Comment by David Mercer — April 20, 2022 @ 5:11 pm

  5. Do you think the Ukes managed to locate their launcher so that it was on a straight line with Snake Island and the Moskva? Could that have made missile defence a bit tricky?

    (I saw the suggestion on the web but the bloke who made it was thinking of the missiles hiding behind the island on the early part of their flight. I wonder whether radar might have had trouble picking out the missiles in the latter part of their flight with the island behind them.)

    Comment by dearieme — April 20, 2022 @ 5:25 pm

  6. If I’m not mistaken neither of the Exocets that hit RN ships in the Falklands exploded, because the FAA had adapted ship launched weapons for air launch and done it wrong. The damage was caused by propellant fires. This may explain why they lasted so long after being hit. It sure looks like Moskva got hit by something that exploded correctly.

    Comment by Green as Grass — April 20, 2022 @ 6:49 pm

  7. @sotosy1: What’s the Kuznetsov up to? Err, not a lot. Currently tied up in Murmansk, and highly unlikely now to play any role in this conflict (just like its deployment to the eastern Med, during which its performance was lacklustre at best)

    @deari: Rumours abound as to how and where the Ukes launched the missiles, including a suggestion that they may have cobbled together an air-launched system. As for Moskva’s radar capability, again much written about this – apparently it’s targeting radar only has 180 degree coverage wherever it’s pointed, and isn’t that good at detecting stuff flying at very low altitude due to surface clutter. No doubt the Ukes exploited these weaknesses to the full.

    Also much chatter about how the vessel was targeted i.e. whether NATO had a hand. Again, suggestions that the Black Sea Fleet isn’t that up on ‘encom’ (Google it) due to poor training/poor kit/hubris/etc (take your pick), making triangulation relatively straightforward. Shame, I was quite fond of that conspiracy theory.

    Oh, and I see Craig’s desire for artillery has finally come to pass. Huzzah! Noteworthy that the Dutch are reportedly providing man-portable fire control radar (again, Google), meaning the Ukes can target specific Russian artillery pieces rather than have to blaze away in their general direction.

    Comment by David Mercer — April 21, 2022 @ 3:01 am

  8. salvage operations

    Comment by elmer — April 23, 2022 @ 7:28 am

  9. @SWP…browse to bitchute-dot-com, and enter ‘oh…Lindsey Graham and John McCain’ in the search bar.
    What were two U.S. Senators doing in Ukraine in December 2016, speaking to the Azov Battalion, fomenting war?

    Comment by Richard Whitney — April 24, 2022 @ 8:23 am

  10. In 2014 Russia took Crimea and launched an armed insurrection in Donbass.

    Hard to imagine someone could possibly “foment war” in 2016, given these events.

    Comment by LL — April 24, 2022 @ 9:50 am

  11. Russia ‘took’ Crimea? I saw the celebration after the referendum, the citizens were very happy.
    Armed insurrection? Do you mean the 8 years of the bombing of Donetsk and Lugansk by the Azov Battalion?
    Graham and McCain were in Ukraine to promote war because Trump had just been elected, and that spelled trouble for the corruption capital of Europe and NATO grifters.

    Comment by Richard Whitney — April 24, 2022 @ 12:31 pm

  12. Now, look at the map and see where the legitimate border between Ukraine and Russia is. That is all that matters, happiness or unhappiness of citizens notwithstanding. This is The Law, understand?

    And pkdase don’t beclown yourself withAzov Batallion bombing nonsense. The armed insurrection started when groyps of Russian Special Troops operators captured the undefended local government offices and police stations and gave weapons to the local underclass. Reinforcing later the so-called “people’s republics” (just the name should make a sane person puke) with more arms, armor and military personnel.

    If anything, the Ukrainian government does have an undeniable right to suppress an armed insurrection on its souvereign territory by whatever means necessary.

    Comment by LL — April 24, 2022 @ 7:20 pm

  13. @Whitney: Honestly, that’s just pathetic. Why not come out and say that you support the war criminal Putin, rather than scratching around for the most meagre of excuses to justify his actions?

    I knew that many here will be suffering inestimable butthurt over the calamity Russia has suffered at the hands of the Ukrainian military, given there’s been so little reaction to Craig’s posts on the topic.

    Comment by David Mercer — April 26, 2022 @ 2:40 am

  14. @elmer. Thanks for that. I had seen and tweeted about it. It seems insane to me. Big, stationary target obviously in range of Ukrainian missiles. If we rule out Russian insanity (which we cannot, of course) the only explanation for running this risk is that there is something very important on the wreck. Yes, maybe comms equipment. But maybe nukes, as has been rumored (and denied). Though given who is denying we know what that is worth.

    Comment by cpirrong — April 26, 2022 @ 10:01 am

  15. @David Mercer…Pathetic is Lindsey Graham and John McCain promoting war to the NAZI Azov Batallion in Ukraine in December 2016. The neocons had already been planning and implementing this provocation for years.
    Pathetic are the sheep believing in the MSM narrative: ‘Russia is out of missiles/Bucha/Snake Island/ Kramatorsk/Gerasimov is dead/ Shoigu has been canned/ Ukronazis not holding civilians in Azovstal’

    Comment by Richard Whitney — May 8, 2022 @ 7:23 am

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