Streetwise Professor

February 8, 2009

35 Comments »

1. Your blog is like a black hole or AIG, SWP. Once you commit to it you can’t get out . Once again, due to being specifically called out…

   Re-pensions. I was citing Rosstat from 2000 to 2007, in which period real (i.e. inflation-adjusted) average pensions did increase by a factor of 2.3. You may dispute them, perhaps because it is not backed by your observations. However it is backed by mine. If in the 1990’s pensioners were indeed forced to work on the side or more typically get money from their children to survive, today they are enough for the basics (though admittedly, no luxuries).

   Re-me regarding Russians as guinea pigs comment. I certainly do not view them that way but unlike you I realize that economic realities (the fact that Russia’s GDP per capita is three times lower than that of the US) means that living worse than Americans is unavoidable, for now.

   Re-long rambling paragraph. “Get your own statistics – go to typical Russian towns, villages, rural areas in the Urals, Siberia, Far East…” With all due respects, those are not statistics. They are observations of people’s subjective viewpoints. First.

   Secondly, I haven’t been to east of the Urals, but I am familiar with life outside Moscow (in Moscow oblast, which is not much more prosperous than the other rural oblasts around it). It is true that many are unhappy about their living standards and envious of the West (or rather what TV shows of the West – not every American lives in a McMansion with several SUV’s and 100,000$’s per year in salary; besides, many of those are now being foreclosed and becoming homeless). However, as someone who visits once every two or three years, it is perhaps easier for me to appreciate the broader changes in society (for an explanation of why this appreciation is harder for Russians in Russia to understand, look up this phenomenon – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creeping_normalcy). Roads are becoming better. More and more people have cars and Internet connections and foreign holidays. Even general people’s attitudes and optimism are growing (I stress the growing bit, because they were very low to begin with and still are, but less so).

   Thirdly, as I said Russia is an underdeveloped country relative to the West so lower incomes, pollution control and social services are inevitable for now. Though re-medical care, Russia is much better when it comes to short, minor treatments than the US, where charges for things like pulling out a sore tooth are exorbitant and woe unto you if you are uninsured/unemployed.

   Re-”Shut up in your primitive attacks against Americans who really help Russian children.” Please quote me where I made “primitive attacks” against any Americans. Otherwise, I would politely suggest you follow your own advice.

   Re-”I am questioning you again and again when did you come to Russia for the last time to learn anything of it not saying about proportion of the good and the bad in Russia?”

   2007.

   —

   In conclusion, I can only say that the commentator from Ekaterinburg is more interested in laying out his or her emotional issues and “truthy” interpretations (to describe things that a person claims to know intuitively or “from the gut” without regard to evidence, logic, intellectual examination, or facts – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truthiness), based on a subjective interpretation, rather than having a mutually respectful and more importantly, useful, debate.

   I also don’t appreciate the constant stream of ad hominems and insinuations, nor do I believe that I’ve written anything to justify them. It is ironic that someone who probably worships the West and “liberals” like Kasparov (well, if he/she makes so many assumptions about me I think I’m entitled to a few about him/her) feels the need to conduct the “debate” in such an inquisitorial, “neo-Soviet” manner.

   (Digression. What is it that makes Russophobes so hateful and impolite? Do they not realize that by their actions, they lose any sympathy I or many other commentators may have had for their viewpoints, and in doing so just set rational opinions more against themselves. Also, reminds me of another thing. Calling out penny here. Can you please finally decide, am I a fascist or a communist? Or one of those dread creatures, the commie-fascist? Lol).

   Finally, I also suspect said commentator suffered from personal failures or losses in the last ten years and become embittered or alienated about the society he is in. If that is the case, I’m sorry about it and wish you the best of luck in recovering from them. But the reality of the matter is that the majority of my friends back in Russia on odnoklassniki feel positive about developments, especially the younger and more enterprising and professionally successful ones, and those Russians who write to me from my site feel I am doing a good job of dispelling Western myths about Russia. That SWP’s site attracts mainly disillusioned Russians is not surprising, since its editorial stance is so dismissive and pessimistic on it; hence producing selection bias. Furthermore…

   “Also, DR asked what ‘I had done for Russian children’ recently or in the last few years… I don’t really feel a need to defend myself but was rather amused so I just forwarded the posts on to actual Russians living in Russia who are familiar with my work. I’ll let them explain it to you;)” – RTYB fro previous thread

   So this was almost certainly one of those RTYB contacted!

   And one more comment to RTYB. I wasn’t attacking you, as I repeatedly stress; though your perception that it I was, is perhaps somewhat revealing (of insecurity? neurosis? But I digress). I was just curious. Considering the amount of interest you expressed and conjectures you made about my own personal details, this wasn’t exactly unexpected.

   I also sincerely hope that whatever it is you’re doing has nothing to do with children, Russian or otherwise; assuming that your hostile hysterics in any way reflect your real life character. Though perhaps they don’t and you just use the Internet to release steam and are actually really likeable in person. Whatever the case, that’s cool with me. If you think a lot of pixels in front of my computer screen, whose message runs contrary to everything I’ve gleaned from statistics and real life observations, are going to upset me or force me to change my mind on issues, then you are very deluded.

   Comment by Da Russophile — February 8, 2009 @ 10:12 pm

2. DR–

   This is the Hotel California of blogs–you can check out, but you can never leave;-)

   And, re being called out, I’ll say this. Given the choice between being attacked and being ignored, I’ll typically choose the former. To be ignored means that you are irrelevant. To be attacked, well, you may be wrong, but at least you are considered to be worth the time.

   Comment by The Professor — February 8, 2009 @ 10:45 pm

3. I agree SWP. But I should make one thing clear. I use the expression “call out”, in the sense of ‘To demand or ask for the presence of”. I certainly don’t intend anyone to think that I’m complaining of being attacked by you.

   Obviously this post is intended to “call me out”, since it is mostly addressed to me. I don’t mind replying to it as a favor to the readers here, to give them another view which I agree is important – although the extent to which I can do this is limited since much of the quoted material substitutes disjointed invective and anecdote-based rambling for reasoned debate (and is certainly not “well worth” reading, IMO).

   Comment by Da Russophile — February 8, 2009 @ 11:38 pm

4. DR- Give up your green card and move back to Russia;) And please don’t forget to post the photos of you serving in the Russian Military!:))We’re all waiting… xoxox

   Comment by rtyb — February 9, 2009 @ 1:22 am

5. Господин Руссофил, вы мне напоминаете мою двенадцатилетнюю племянницу, которая всегда за отсутствием аргументов и неумением принимать очевидные факты, предпочитает наехать на оппонента от бессилия и вопить: неудачник, лузер, неважно насколько успешный человек с ней ведет беседу. Я не собираюсь метать бисер перед тем, кому нужно объяснять, что я или кто-то другой не верблюд, если этот кто-то с ним не согласен. Только очень незрелые люди с менталитетом подростков не способны анализировать факты и предпочитают плавать в своих розовых инсинуациях, построенных на десятке мнений с сайта одноклассников.
   Однако, даже моя двенадцатилетняя племянница иногда признает свои ошибки. Вы, похоже, никогда. Люди, не способные к развитию, многостороннему анализу происходящего, а главное, лишенные милосердия, цинично утверждающие, что старики в России разве что роскошь себе позволить не могут, вызывают у меня чувство разочарования от расходования моей драгоценной энергии на предсказуемых оппонентов, утративших чувствительность и проницательность в восприятии информации. Остается, напоследок, великодушно пожелать вам повзрослеть и помудреть, а главное подобреть.

   Comment by Russianwitness — February 9, 2009 @ 7:35 am

6. Mr Russofil, you remind me my twelve years old niece, who is always in the absence of arguments and the inability to accept the obvious facts, prefers to hit an opponent of powerlessness and yell: loser, luzer, no matter how successful a person has a conversation with her. I am not going to cast pearls before those who have to explain that I or someone else is not a camel, if that someone does not agree with him. Only a very immature people with the mentality of adolescents are not able to analyze the facts and prefer to swim in their pink innuendo built dozens of opinions from classmates.
   However, even twelve years old, my niece is sometimes recognized its mistakes. You seem to be never. People who are not capable of development, analysis of multilateral and, more importantly, without mercy, cynically claiming that the elderly in Russia is it that luxury can not afford it, cause I have a sense of frustration of spending my precious energy on predictable opponents who have lost their sensitivity and insight in the perception of information. There is, finally, graciously wishing you grow up and pomudret and, most importantly, podobret.

   http://translate.google.no/translate_t#

   Comment by Vladimir — February 9, 2009 @ 8:41 am

7. Well, DR, it looks like you asked for it and now got it. It’s a fair challenge by real Russians calling your bluff. It’s just too cheap and easy sitting in your comfy perch in California and defending the Putin’s fascism. By every metric Communism was an abysmal failure that extracted a terrible price on people, a price that is still ongoing in Russia. It’s astounding that a human mind can still defend that failed “ism”. My problem with you has always been my perception of your lack of morality. Sure, many Russians gained with oil prices material stuff, but, they lost any chance the last eight years of building a civil society which is more important than the wealth accumulation by a few.

   It’s ironic and amusing that you digressed into an ad hominem attack on me with “suffered from personal failures or losses in the last ten years” while criticizing insinuations and ad hominem attacks on you.

   Comment by penny — February 9, 2009 @ 9:46 am

8. My time and energy isn’t worth on ideological fanatics and trolls. One thing I can agree with Russianwitness on though obviously from different sides of the window.

   So have fun stewing in your hatred and pessimism if it gives meaning to your lives and wish you a nice day. Adios.

   Comment by Da Russophile — February 9, 2009 @ 12:35 pm

9. [...] A debate on life in today's Russia between “Russianwitness” and “Da Russophile” – at Streetwise Professor's blog. Posted by Veronica Khokhlova  Print version Share This [...]

   Pingback by Global Voices Online » Russia: “Russianwitness” vs “Da Russophile” — February 10, 2009 @ 8:01 pm

10. “It’s just too cheap and easy sitting in your comfy perch in California and defending the Putin’s fascism.” – It’s also easy sitting in your nice heated house/apartment, in your comfy computer chair, using your expensive computer/internet to exaggerate your hardships beyond belief just to get people to sympathize with you, and then throw out personal insults when confronted with a rational, fact based argument.

    I’m from Canada. I used to live in a pretty rotten city when I was a kid. With a little exaggeration, a little added drama, I could easily make it sound like Canada is some scummy third world country based on select personal experiences I had growing up.

    For example, I lived in an area with lots of immigrants. A lot of refugees from Sri Lanka in fact, many of them not yet “civilized” by our standards, or used to the “western” lifestyle. There was this building complex near our school where a lot of my friends lived. Whenever I visited, I was always struck by how terrible and disgusting those buildings were. Not only did they look worn out and depressing from the outside, but the were even worse inside. They smelled like urine, the carpets were completely stained and discoloured, the walls black and filthy. It looked like no one had cleaned anything in decades. The elevators were always out of service, and there were always burnt out lights in every hallway. I remember once seeing a (presumably) used condom just lying there on the staircase one time. Disgusting. And the apartments were so small, there were often families of 4-5 living with one small living room, one small kitchen, one bathroom and two bedrooms. Oh and don’t even get me started on the cockroaches.

    Don’t tell me about downtown Toronto or Montreal. That’s not Canada. Try visiting the slums and the welfare neighbourhoods, the ghettos and the “bad” streets, like where I grew up. You think we live in some wonderful paradise land where everything is perfect? Oh sure, maybe the wealthiest 10%-20%. But the rest of us are stuck living in their trash. If we have it so nice, then how come half the people I know are on anti-depressants including many of my family members? Why do so many people still commit suicide? Don’t compare your situation with ours until you’ve lived here, in the REAL Canada for a few years, to see what it’s really like.

    Now, this is all 100% true. Not a single thing made up in the above “story”, just a bit of added drama and rhetoric. But does my personal, select experience of this one part of this one city really change the fact that Canada is, statistically speaking, one of the most developed countries in the world with one of the highest living standards? Of course not. That’s no way to argue or make a point. You can’t use sob stories and personal experiences to reflect on an entire country. It’s cheap. It’s meaningless. All you’re doing is manipulating peoples minds, either to get sympathy, or to turn them against someone you’re arguing against without having to actually make a real argument.

    I’m a fan of statistics and logic, not stories and hearsay. I know from personal experience (and I think we all do) how people around us often complain and exaggerate their own hardships even though they have things a million times better than poor people in Africa, Bangladesh, India etc.. Believe me, when I watch American made TV, I get jealous and reflect on my own average life just like everyone else. But you gotta understand that what you see on TV is not real life. Normal people don’t live like the fools in Orange County or 90210. That’s not what “the west” is like. Stop comparing your life to fictionalized portrayals of our lifestyle, and start looking at some statistics. Yes we live better than most people in Russia (statistically speaking, I’ve never been there), but not THAT much better. We’re not comparing Sweden to Zimbabwe here. And again, statistically speaking, Russia has made far more gains than any western country over the past 8 years in terms of living standards, wages, middle-class etc..

    Just my two cents anyways.

    Comment by Bob from Canada — February 10, 2009 @ 11:56 pm

11. Bob, statistics and (non) logic from Russians pumping out propaganda mean nothing. There are more than a few of us who have experienced life in Russia first hand recently and understand that Rosstat is a joke. I’m going to paste in what I just posted on La Russophobe concerning the reporting of crime in Russia. A commentor suggested that the same crimes take place in the US so pointing to Russia’s crime was irrelevant. Unfortunately, the point is that reporting crime in Russia is simply NOT accepted. The reporting of actual statistics and facts is not accepted. I will say that you know little concerning the ‘living standards’ of the average Russian. Yes, one would think that “logically” what you say is true considering the billions made in Russia over the past ten years, the Oligarchs, etc. But what was a tiny glimpse of a middle class forming in Russia has been systematically destroyed by Putin. What was in 2005 no longer exists. Billions have been squandered, lives destroyed and no, living standards have not improved. In fact, they’ve now gone backwards. Anyway, this was my response and I think it can be applied here as well. You need to understand what the objective is. If you are a defender of Russia, then get to know her and the reality of her situation… SWP discusses the economic situation in Russia which is directly effected by the government. I am concerned with Human Rights in Russia, which is also directly related to the economy and government. It’s all connected-

    RTYB @ La Russophobe: Yes Jason. Crimes like this ARE committed in the United States every day but they are reported and more importantly, they are prosecuted. Criminals are tried before a jury and we have constitutional rights that protect us. Such is not the case in Russia. Victims have no voice, especially children and the disabled. Russia continues to be the number one exporter of child pornography and there are zero laws to stop it (as if it would matter if there were any written laws as ALL are completely subjective in Russia). Have you lived in Russia? If so, have you ever wondered why you never see any disabled people? Oh yeah, It’s because they’re tied up to beds in barred institutions which will most likely burn down to the ground in a mysterious fire eventually. No one fighting for the rights of Russian victims is anti-Russia or overly pro-America. It’s not a USA vs Russia thing. It’s a human rights ‘thing.’ And I really wish people with giant chips on their shoulders about Russia would figure that out and understand the difference. I care because my family is Russian NOT because I am anti- Russian or some crazed American patriot. The two are apples and oranges. No one has ever followed me, shut my water off or interviewed my friends in the United States because I was trying to film the living conditions of children with AIDS within state ‘institutions.’ And btw, in Russia, abandoned children who test positive for HIV (and there are more than Russia will admit) are moved to Detsky Doms for disabled children! It’s a dark scary place and one apparently Russia doesn’t want anyone else to see as was made very clear to me through extreme, typical, thug-like intimidation tactics.

    If you are obsessed with comparing the USA with Russia then by all means go ahead. I think you’ll quickly find that reporting crime is not a crime punishable by death in the United States and there in lies one of the biggest and most obvious differences.

    Bravo to anyone who risks their life by bringing the true life situation of many Russians to light!

    Comment by rtyb — February 11, 2009 @ 1:56 am

12. rtyb, I wasn’t even referring to Rosstat, I was talking about things like the UN Human Development Report and the various statistics gathered by the UN, IMF, World bank etc.. Although if you’re going to call Rosstat joke, you’ll have to explain why and back it up with some evidence. Just because you don’t like what they report doesn’t mean they’re making their statistics up. Have you personally gathered statistics from around the country that painted a different picture? Or do you base your claims on hearsay, personal experience in your own neighbourhood and an inherent bias, as I suspect? I mean, if Rosstat was making statistics up, why would they put the life expectancy so low?

    Your post sounds like a bit of fact thrown into a whole bunch of fiction and sensationalism. Why should I believe any of your extraordinary claims just because you live there and I don’t? If I say Canada is the world’s largest exporter of moon dust and the legal age to get a license is 12, does that mean it’s true just because of the very fact that I live here? The problem is you’re not arguing with verifiable facts backed up by sources, you’re arguing with unverifiable conspiracies, urban legends, and completely over the top claims that I can’t bring myself to even sort of believe.

    You obviously have an axe to grind. You might be one of those irrational self-haters, or you might just hate Putin so much that you’re willing to compare your country to the most vile places on Earth just so you can point to him and paint him as the source of all this exaggerated turmoil. One way or another, I find your stance suspicious in light of the fact that you haven’t sourced a single one of your claims and keep trying to play the “I live here, you don’t” card instead. I can’t help but feel like I’m speaking with a dishonest person with alternative motives (much the feeling I get when reading La Russophobe’s blog, which I stopped doing a long time ago because of its sillyness and his/her habit of not posting my comments which more often than not were to point out factual inaccuracies, and were always sourced.)

    Anyhow, don’t bother replying to me if you’re just going to go on another self-righteous rant about how you KNOW because you live there and see everything that goes on in the entire country with your own eyes, and I don’t know because all statistics are made up and I only see Putin’s propaganda on BBC. I’m interested in -CREDIBLE- sources for these crazy claims, like the middle-class disappearing, or the mass genocide of disabled peoples across the country. I stress the word credible, because shady no-name sources and blogs are no more believable than random people posting hearsay in the comment section (ie. you).

    Comment by Bob from Canada — February 11, 2009 @ 4:04 am

13. It is easy to say that Russia is better than Somalia, Nigeria or Sri Lanka. The tragedy of Russia that it is potentially a very civilized country and has to exist according to rules and laws as any other civilized country like the USA, Germany, UK , France, Israel, etc. with all drawbacks of democratic structures, at least with fair competition. Unfortunately today Russia exists like the former Soviet Union with a little bit more freedom, with some more opportunities for the stronger people with entrepreneurial and creative abilities. Now people in Russia are able to say truth and express disaffection to government not only in their kitchens, unless they are the real potential threat to the official regime, like Mr. Khardakovskiy, f.e., or famous journalists, dead now.
    Russia proved historically, very practically an economical incapacity of Marxism models of a human society. But the majority of Russian population is still from the former Soviet Union mentality by roots, especially it refers to the government. They run the country not according to economics rules, but according their totalitarian ideas, taking in consideration from time to time, not really voluntarily, laws of world economics development, in order to keep their power. People in Kremlin think that they know better than the historical economical experience of mankind what to do for Russian economy, middle class business, for seniors, for children without parental custody, invalids, etc. First of all mentality of powers-that-be works to satisfy themselves and to adjust to current circumstances to do anything to keep their power together with the group of big businessmen who feed this power. Russia is a country of nomenclature(state) capitalism and it is a huge tragedy for the majority of those who were raised in the former Soviet Union, I hope very young people have definitely more chances. Russia is not in the position of an African tribe because it is a country of talented people who always find opportunities to survive independently on laws and government(because they both do not work appropriately, not saying about stupid laws the stupid government creates), including smart accountants, very flexible little businessmen and lawyers, etc. Everybody more or less strong enough tries to find a niche, a “comfy perch”. But it does not refer to unprotected children, lonely seniors, disabled people. The tolerance of Russian people is limitless and it is a huge tragedy for Russia, the country of an ETERNAL POTENTIAL, but currently nothing much more than potential.

    Comment by Russianwitness — February 11, 2009 @ 5:15 am

14. BTW Bob, if you don’t like what ‘we’ are telling you. Check out this report from NPR about the “Horror” of life inside Putin’s Russia:

    http://larussophobe.wordpress.com/2009/02/11/editorial-the-horror-of-life-in-putins-russia/

    I think you can consider NPR a “credible” source;) No?

    Comment by rtyb — February 11, 2009 @ 12:49 pm

15. And Bob, concerning the child exploitation issue. Yes, it’s true. I have witnessed the tragedy of these children’s lives in Russia but since you claim that I am not a credible source, I encourage you to ‘google’ the topic where you will find thousands of articles discussing this ’sick’ problem coming out of Russia. I just did it and I noticed a high number of arrests in Canada related to Russia child sexual exploitation…. interesting…;) The articles I’m posting are from a couple of years ago, at the height of Russia’s BOOMING economy! Huh. Now it’s worse. The economy. The exploitation of children. It’s all worse and I fail to see how discussing this statistic makes me self-hating or irrational? Then I suppose all journalists, Interpol, the FBI, etc who research and discuss the topic are just deluded self-haters? Is that it Bob? Here are you ’stats’ from the UN Bob concerning Russian children:
    http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,USDOL,,RUS,,48caa489c,0.html

    And here’s a working list of references for you but as I said, there are thousands:

    http://www.russiajournal.com/node/5808
    http://www.crime-research.org/news/01.08.2005/1398/
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/08/iwf_report/
    http://domino-201.worldvision.org/get_involved.nsf/child/globalissues_stp_russia?Open&lid=Russia_LN&lpos=rightnav
    https://www.inhope.org/system/files/stc-pp-cp.pdf

    Comment by rtyb — February 11, 2009 @ 1:21 pm

16. Here you go Bob. Brand new report just for you:

    http://www.buffalonews.com/339/story/182863.html

    Comment by rtyb — February 11, 2009 @ 1:28 pm

17. rtyb, so you’ve provided an article that talks about a bunch of general stuff that we all already know, none of it even close to confirming the BS you’ve been spewing here, and you linked to a generalized article about child pornography, which specifically says “Virtually no country is exempt from this ugliness.” Then it says Russia AND THE US are to blame for the brunt of the problem, claiming that 2/3rds of it is hosted on US based web servers. And what on earth is with your claim that there are no laws against this filth in Russia? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve read in weeks, of course there are. It’s just not against the law to possess it, according to your article. To put that in context, that would be like if possession of videos of murder was legal, and you going on to claim that there are no laws against murder. This is just one example of your dishonest and sensationalist manner of arguing which seems to be confirming my suspicions about your motives.

    Anyways, more to the point, those problems are WIDELY reported, everyone knows about them already. No one here is claiming Russia is perfect, or even on par with the west. But those articles have nothing to do with what you’ve been saying here. I asked for sources confirming specific claims, and I want specific quotes from credible sources. The supposed genocide of disabled people, the middle-class that allegedly disappeared (According to radio free Europe, as of October 2008, the middle class consists of a quarter of the population: http://www.rferl.org/content/Requiem_For_Russias_Middle_Class/1294084.html ), your claim that Rosstat makes up statistics… You’re really grasping at straws here by posting such irrelevant articles in an attempt to legitimize your claims.

    Comment by Bob from Canada — February 11, 2009 @ 6:47 pm

18. Hmm I just realized something interesting. If you had actually bothered to read the NPR report itself rather than just reading LaRussphobe’s cherry picked paragraphs and assuming the whole article was negative, you would see that the report is actually about documenting improvements from the 90s, which is completely contrary to what you’ve been trying to convince me of. The bulk of the four part report is about vast improvements over the past decade, and although it talks about short-comings, that is no surprise, no country goes from rags to riches in 8 years.

    -”The biggest change is psychological. There is a new confidence. Khatumova credits former president, now Prime Minister Vladimir Putin with bringing stability.

    “Putin has made quite a number of very important decisions — decisions which are in the interests of Russia and the Russian people,” she says. “We started to respect ourselves.”-

    Please, do yourself a favour, stop reading blogs like LaRussophobes, and start reading things with actual substance and meaning. LaRussophobe’s job is to make people hate Russia, and he lies and manipulates, misreports and makes logical fallacies in order to achieve his goal. There’s nothing honest or truthful in what he does, and you’ve obviously been taken in by it.

    Comment by Bob from Canada — February 11, 2009 @ 7:28 pm

19. Bob,

    Arguing with these cyber thugs is a waste of time and possibly dangerous for your health. It seems that rtyb has now graduated to online harassment sending me the following cutesy email:

    “http://www.buffalonews.com/339/story/182863.html
    Read that you out of touch asshole!”

    No wonder she has issues or problems or whatever it is she has with ordinary Russians if this is any guide to her RL persona. No wonder Russian “liberals” (I emphasize the quote marks), who typically have similar attitudes, have approval ratings of about 2% yet nonetheless presume to speak for the Russian nation.

    Anyway, as a person far cleverer than me once said первый признак умного человека – с первого взгляду знать, с кем имеешь дело, и не метать бисера перед Репетиловыми и тому подоб (a sign of a clever person is to realize who they’re talking with straight away, and not to throw pearls before boorish swine). Far better to let them wallow in their pigsty.

    Comment by Da Russophile — February 11, 2009 @ 8:07 pm

20. DR- You know, people actually respect your intellect. I do, and I know others do as well. I think you and Bob are quite different. And I do apologize, I had to reread your post a couple of times. I thought you were calling me and ass****. Okay, I’ve got it now and I’m sorry someone was so insulting. It’s true that I can be equally as passionate and swear profusely (never in my comments) but I’m not so direct as the person in your email. DR-please don’t mistake my passion for some sort of ’self-hatred’ as Bob claims. I care deeply and I would think that as a ‘Russian’ you would understand and appreciate this. I’m not trying to tear Russia down. I’m trying to stop the bleeding. Things were so much better in 2004. There’s no way we would have had this conversation in 2004… not even in 2006 and most of 2007. Much of the decline has happened recently and rapidly. I think this decline is one reason you’re seeing more people like myself, like RW speaking out. Life is different now. Very different. And yes, Bob. Those ’statistics’ are very available on multiple ‘credible’ sites concerning Russia’s human rights violations.

    RW- As far as your “pearl” statement goes, I am amused that you used another version RussianWitness’s statement to you. Her abbreviated pearl quote reference must have been lost on you the first time.

    DR, I think you’re intelligent but I think you are also more obsessed with ‘winning’ or being ‘correct.’ It is your ego for which you are most concerned not Russia’s citizens. And I say this because you still haven’t answered my burning question: If Russia is so great, then why don’t you give up your green card and move back? It’s a simple question and one that you continue to ignore.

    I am not a cyber thug DR. The people in this article are cyber thugs, cyber criminals. There is a great deal of irony in your comment: http://www.buffalonews.com/339/story/182863.html

    DR, you and I live comfortably in the US. Maybe you should travel to Russia with me. I will give you a very good tour. I have about 8 hours of video footage that my photographer recorded as well, and additional footage provided to me from local news stations in Sverdlovsk that were never shown to the public. I think it’s time to start posting that video footage. I also think it’s time for me to obtain more. Bob, check back on SWP often. I’ll provide you with the link once I start putting it up. I will be adding sub-titles over the next week or so. Thanks for inspiring me!

    Comment by rtyb — February 11, 2009 @ 9:04 pm

21. Bob, there are no laws against child pornography in Russia. That is the problem. Google it dear. Russia is the biggest producer of child porn. It’s a problem. Yes, Russians are smart. And their excellent programmers absolutely know how to host on US Servers, upload their material and maximize their profits. It’s a massive undertaking. Yes, it’s a problem in the US, absolutely. I’ve never excused the United States of anything when I speak about Russia. Read my previous post. It’s not a US vs Russia thing. Never for me. But at least when you’re caught even looking at this kind of material in the US, you are going to jail. Such is not the case in Russia. The images and films being spread around the world aren’t of American kids. They’re of Russian kids. Also, true that pedastry is a problem in all countries (Afghanistan has a special problem with this) but only in Russia have they mastered the art of turning it into a multi-million dollar enterprise. Yes, Russians are smart;)

    And Bob, anyone who disputes or mocks the seriousness of child exploitation is one sick person in my mind. I don’t think even DR would defend or mock something so sick. If the link demonstrates anything, it demonstrates that I, unlike you, am not obsessed with winning some ‘imaginary’ war between the US and Russia. I only care about the blatant violation of human rights and exploitation of innocent people.

    Comment by rtyb — February 11, 2009 @ 9:17 pm

22. So once again you’re going to try and “prove” something by making a video of areas near where you live, as if your personal experiences speak on behalf of a country of 140 million citizens and thousands of cities and towns? I could do the exact same thing where I live. I could go to Toronto right now and take pictures of the slums, drug addicts, the massive amounts of homeless people who often sleep on sidewalks…I could take pictures of the cockroach infested buildings I was talking about. I hear vancouver is even worse with street bums. Or maybe I’ll go up to one of those native Canadian reserves where they live like it’s still 1930.

    You’re not going to convince me of anything with some home-made video. Every country has its problems and no one is claiming that Russia is an exception. You just like to exaggerate and make things up. I still don’t know your motive, but I know you’re not just trying to “spread the truth” because you “love” your country. It’s anything but the truth.

    You haven’t even responded to my last two posts or acknowledged anything regarding your previous bogus claims. Why is that? I want to know about this genocide and I want to know why every single source I find says the middle-class in Russia is growing, while you say there is no such thing. I want to know why you call Rosstat a joke. I want to know what you think about that report that you linked, which ended up debunking your own argument because you never actually read it beyond a few select paragraphs posted on a russophobe blog.

    I guess DR was right. This is pointless, probably not good for the health. Some people just don’t understand that facts trump all, and you sir do not have any facts at all.

    Comment by Bob from Canada — February 11, 2009 @ 9:33 pm

23. And once again your claim is wrong. Even your own article talks about how authorities in Russia are trying to combat the problem. How could they combat the problem if there were no laws against it? You’re just making things up, it’s that simple. You appear to be living on a different planet.

    And where exactly did I mock anything? I think you’re delusional.

    Comment by Bob from Canada — February 11, 2009 @ 9:36 pm

24. @RTYB,

    I apologize in that case for saying it was you. (However, considering that a) that email came within minutes of your Post #14, b) came from a person with a female Russian name with an IP address in San Francisco, and c) our history, I think this assumption was understandable).

    “I care deeply and I would think that as a ‘Russian’ you would understand and appreciate this.”

    I appreciate the work done by Russian human rights organizations; I don’t appreciate it when they twist it out of context for propagandistic purposes, especially for a Western audience. Because foreign states couldn’t care less about human rights in Russia (or anywhere else for that matter) except as a lever to expand their own power and influence there. Positively commenting and associating with La Russophobe, a person who explicitly stated regret over the fact that Nazi Germany failed to conquer the USSR, goes under this category. Finally. Whining about how hard life is doesn’t earn you respect or help from the West or indeed any society; just scorn and cynical exploitation. It’s about time more people realized this.

    Re-2007 change. The reason would be food prices rising faster than general incomes, which hurts the poor a lot (since their spending on food is a large part of their consumption basket). Now of course there’s the general collapse in industrial output. While both these things are bad, it should be stressed that they are global and non Russia-specific. Food riots in 2007-08 contributed to severe unrest and toppled governments in several countries, and the same is happening now with the economic crisis.

    Re-pearls. Actually no it wasn’t, it slipped my mind because I wrote that reply 2 days later. Might have been something subconscious though.

    Re-”DR, I think you’re intelligent but I think you are also more obsessed with ‘winning’ or being ‘correct.’”

    1. I know, no need to point it out.
    2. I thought that was the whole point of debates? Otherwise why bother coming here and arguing?

    Re-”If Russia is so great, then why don’t you give up your green card and move back? It’s a simple question and one that you continue to ignore.”

    1. I never said that Russia is “great”, or that it is “greater” than the US. I said that I disagree with how negatively it is painted by the Western media and a minority of Russians.
    2. Since I left Russia when I was very young because of my parents, didn’t go to schools there, etc, it’s not as if I have a realistic choice anyway.

    Re-video, Bob. I basically agree with him that if one wanted to, one can make a video about any country to make it appear like a Third World dump. Michael Moore is the ultimate proof of this. Sure Flint, Michigan might be a foreclosed scrapyard and the Bush family might have had some questionable ties with the bin Ladens but nonetheless this does not make the US an Orwellian broken-down banana republic. I also fail to see where he “disputes or mocks the seriousness of child exploitation”; what he does do is question what relevance it has to this “discussion”.

    Comment by Da Russophile — February 12, 2009 @ 6:22 pm

25. DR- Just wanted to point out that I’m also female and in Nor Cal. Anyway, this discussion(link)has started spreading to other sites… so I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re getting some additional traffic right now. btw- I was serious about you traveling to Russia w/ me. And I’m serious when I say that it’s worse now than it has been in many years. I didn’t always believe that Putin was a madman but maybe I was naive before.. I can remember thinking he was decent and strong back in 2004. I was more confused by the events surrounding Beslan than anything else. It was during this time that many began to turn on Putin, but I was still unsure. “Aren’t the terrorists bad? Isn’t Russia trying to stop them,” were my thoughts. I was having too much fun in 2004 to worry about Chechnya or terrorists. Life was good. But I’ve put a great deal of time, study, discussion and thought into many of the changes in Russia over the past few years… And it’s hardly limited to my own ‘personal’ experiences. I’ve been fortunate enough to have lived a rather privileged life so my views are not related to any sort of personal (financial) hardship. Quite the opposite really.

    Regarding children, it’s possible that as a woman and a mother of Russian children that I simply have a more intense view and interest in this topic. I have worked with victims. I have seen how it destroys a life forever. If you don’t have children yet, maybe it’s harder to understand or seems less important. I’m not sure. For me (and the UN), the lack of laws protecting children in Russia and the overall denial of this problem is a a huge problem. The article also points to the increase of this horrible illegal activity because of downturn of the Russian economy. And since the original post is related RW’s view of life in Russia right now, I think it’s very relevant. You’re right. It would be weird if I posted that link under a discussion about Gazprom, but I didn’t. Yes, I’m passionate about these issues but I’m also objective. I’m certain that if the average Russian felt safe enough to express their opposition or to fight for basic human rights, I would be much less concerned with the state of Russia’s economy, lifestyle, health care, etc. Unfortunately, people have been systematically silenced either through direct intimidation or murder. One cannot deny that you and I have so much more freedom in the United States to fight anything that ‘we’ perceive as an injustice. It doesn’t matter if we’re a minority in our opinion or if our idea is completely insane, we can state it out loud to everyone and anyone with little fear of retribution. Russians do not have this luxury right now. And that’s a problem. One shouldn’t fear for their life simply because they choose ‘journalism’ or ‘law’ as their profession-

    Comment by rtyb — February 12, 2009 @ 10:03 pm

26. “I’m passionate about these issues but I’m also objective.”

    Why should anything you say be taken as objective when you’re clearly making things up to further your argument (which can only be assumed by your continual dodging of my inquiries). That’s the exact opposite of objective, you’re trying to get your point across using exaggerations and fiction instead of looking at things from a neutral point of view and criticizing only what needs to be criticized (which is admittedly plenty). What that does is make people like me, people who don’t have an inherent bias, become biased. Now I’m not even arguing FOR Russia, I’m arguing AGAINST you, and because of you, I find myself unintentionally shrugging off and dismissing problems that otherwise would deserve attention.

    Maybe people like me would put more serious thought into things like human rights in Russia if people like you weren’t constantly shoving this ridiculous image of Putin being Satan himself and turning Russia into the Fourth Reich with living conditions of 18th century Russia down our throats.

    And tell that to your pal Kasparov the next time you see him, too. I recently came to realize that I don’t hate Kasparov because he’s anti-Putin. I hate him because he’s a bullshitter and a fake, a pawn of the west who lies and manipulates to gain sympathy (he obvious took lessons from us). That in turn makes me sympathize with Putin, (who, hate him as you may, is not a bullshitter or a fake), and regret that there is no credible opposition in Russia, not even in the fringes.

    Comment by Bob from Canada — February 13, 2009 @ 6:49 am

27. BOB, are you Bob from Canada or Boris from KGB staff? You reaction upon any obvious and terrible facts of Russia makes me suppose that you have a well-paid task to oppose disclosure of anything bad about Russia. Everything you do here is opposing Rtyb and not debating about justice. As soon as anything real of contemporary Russian life emerges in Rtyb’s mention you are horribly irritated and call it made up without any evidence.
    The difference between Rtyb and you is the same like between an alive free bird and frozen fish. Rtyb cares about Russia and calls you to analyze real things. Alas, in vain. She feels lack of oxygen, mud in environment, pain of others alive creatures having own experience by personal observing Russian reality (read Rtyb’s posts attentively). But you do not care about Russia. You intellectualize of Russia, abused children, middle class with your frozen mind from lack of compassion without any own experience. I have a feeling that I address to a twin brother of Da Russophile. May be, you have close people, friends, relatives in Russia, or may be you adopted or intend to adopt Russian orphans or perform charity support in favor of Russian disabled people? Da Russophile is originally from Russia and at least I can understand his subjective proud of a doubtful glamorous image of Russia, cause he personally knows successful people from Russian and can rely on Russian experience of though only a few Russian natives. Do you see things father than your freezing compartment with your frozen brain? What is the source of your audacious self-confidence? What is your interest in hating and attacking Rtyb, in worshipping Putin and, by the way, why do you hate Kasparov so much? Rtyb and Kasparov are hysterics for you because they are too passionate in producing real facts and this is the way how they protect Russia. They do not stupidly applaud temporary good factors of Russian economics and Russian life which may disappear tomorrow only because of short-sighted governmental management. (I do not want to say again about dependence of Russian economy on oil and gas prices. Any ordinary person understands that without any intellectual efforts.)
    One more important thing you do not consider of Russia is the balance between crime and punishment and it is another tragedy in Russia. The punishment in Russia provoke Russian criminals both very inventive and primitive in their criminal ways. You can be sentenced to 6 years of jail for robbery of one kilo of potatoes and to 2 years confinement for rape of a child.
    Russia like a sponge imbibed everything disgusting ( children pornography, kidnapping, drug traffic, racket, financial pyramids, zenophobia, etc., ) borrowed from western democracies but almost ignored any ways in opposing all theses nightmares, like inalterability and firmness of Constitution, elaborating appropriate laws, enforcement to make existing laws work, prosecution of criminals regardless their financial and political status, development of free speech and active citizenship. This is the difference of Russia from any other western democracies – a horrible balance between crime and punishment in favor of crime.
    The vertical of the power in Russia (“great” Putin’ achievement ) is the vertical of a total corruption: government, enforcement, control authorities, police, courts. You cannot imagine how many drug dealers and bribetakers work in Russian police. Police officers can invest your business better than any bank and will be your roof(protection ) and your system of justice, including court and execution of sentence. Besides purely criminal affairs, murder is a typical way of political fight in Russia. What is the difference in the amount of political murders in Russia and in Canada? Moreover I have never heard loud arrogant statements of Canadian leaders that Canada is sublime, unique and the best, greatest country of the world with her own outstanding way of development.
    For sure, Rtyb and Kasparov do not need to gain your sympathy. They have a profound look of Russian life that is why they are deeply concerned – very differently from you, Bob from Canada, the product of brainwash! Or you are the part of brainwash machine?
    One more question – do you know the level of Russian immigration to Canadian “slums”? Crowds of people. I know nobody to come back. And what about Canadian immigration to Russia? Any statistics from the lover of statistics and logic?
    I do not recommend you to move to Russia but advise to travel along Russian “good roads” and start your Russian experience from counting up ramps for the disabled although in a big city. You are very welcome to get out of your freezing compartment.
    And, please, do not be so predictable – surprise anybody – do not attack opposing people with your insulting way of arguing like you and Da Russophile ( though in more delicate way) always do. Melt your frozen mind.

    Comment by Russianwitness — February 14, 2009 @ 11:50 am

28. I am in fact Boris from KGB. You caught me.

    No wait, your second guess was right I changed my mind. I’m actually the product of brainwash. My state controlled Canadian media has been brainwashing me since birth. All hail Tsar Putin.

    There are approximately 55,000 Ethnic Russians in Canada, including those who were born here. We have many more Ukrainians, Poles, Germans, Chinese, Indians and Italians. But why is that important? You can learn all about Canadian demographics here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_canada

    Comment by Bob from Canada — February 14, 2009 @ 1:18 pm

29. RW makes an excellent point, along the lines of one I made a couple of years ago. The “power vertical” has essentially just centralized and integrated the process of corruption and violence. The state has displaced the gangsters. This is an improvement, but hardly an ideal, and far from what would be considered minimally acceptable in say, Canada.

    The famous economist Mancur Olson, distinguished between “roving bandits” and “stationary bandits.” Roving bandits are gangsters. Russia was ruled by roving bandits in the 1990s. Roving bandits are especially damaging because they have no long term interest in the society on which they prey because they anticipate that they will be displaced or killed rather quickly. So they take everything they can while they can. The Russian experience of the 90s is a good illustration of this.

    “Stationary bandits” are those that amass sufficient force to permit them to overwhelm and displace roving bandits. Stationary bandits anticipate that they will survive for some period of time, and hence have some incentive to encourage wealth creation–to maximize their future take. But, they have no interest in fostering a civil society that could oppose their predations. Moreover, they distort economic activity in order to foster those that are easier to plunder. By extracting their take they discourage economic activity. Thus, those subject to the stationary bandit’s rule are better off than when roving bandits flourish, but are far worse off than they would be under a more liberal, democratic system that is not designed to maximize the ruler’s take.

    Putin and the siloviki are stationary bandits. That makes them better than roving bandits. But they are still bandits. They have centralized corruption. That improves things (as I have explained in earlier posts, making an analogy to the industrial organization literature), but it is not conducive to permitting the Russian people–the people, not the state–to realize their economic potential, or their human potential.

    Putin crushed the roving bandits. He and the siloviki became the stationary bandits in their stead. Bravo. This is an improvement, but as I’ve said before, it’s an improvement from hell to purgatory, and there is little prospect that under the current system Russia has realistic hopes for anything better than that.

    Comment by The Professor — February 14, 2009 @ 6:04 pm

30. Well, Bob, you always substitute ideas and notions of everybody you dislike here or may be you do the same in your everyday life. Please, do not “surprise” me informing me that Canada is a multinational country. I repeat for the most gifted, that I mention a huge immigration from Russia for the last 10-20 years. I personally know a lot of people who moved to Canada and the USA for the better life and found it. I am informed personally and keep in touch with a few of these people. They are happy and do not come back. Do you disagree with them too? Give me the link of Canadian Diaspora of recent Canadian immigrants who found the life in Russia better than in Canada.

    I am glad that your have a sense of self irony. It is a good sign for development.

    Comment by Russianwitness — February 15, 2009 @ 3:21 am

31. I would like to add, the Professor, that in the time of “roving bandits” I did not feel myself so unprotected, lost and insecure of the future than now under “stationary bandits”. Definitely, in 1990- 2000, regardless of crisis of 1998, I was full of optimism, hope and freedom. Today nothing of rainbow feelings left. Should I join “stationary bandits” ( and )

    Comment by Russianwitness — February 15, 2009 @ 4:05 am

32. Very interesting comment, RW. I value your personal testimonies. They bring a lot to the blog. Thanks.

    I am sorry to hear about your loss of hope, but I can understand it. In a way, it encapsulates my “purgatory” analogy. Even in the chaos of the 90s, there was (as I understand it, though not having personal experience) a widespread sense of liberation from the deadening hand of Soviet rule even in the midst of kaleidescopic change, economic insecurity, and for some, personal insecurity. Now, the stifling heavy hand of the state, and the omnipresent propaganda emanating from the TV, weigh on the minds of thinking people. In chaos, change is inevitable, and it may be change for the better; at least there is that hope. In an autocracy that fetishizes “stability” there is only the promise of more of the same. Limbo. Purgatory. This is not an environment in which hope blooms.

    Moreover, there is something fundamentally more dispiriting when it is the state that is fundamentally corrupt. One never has any illusions that gangsters will ever act in your interest. But, at least in theory, the state is supposed to be your agent, to have your interests at heart. The hypocrisy of the state posing as the embodiment of the people at the same time that it is transparently the mechanism by which its minions enrich and empower themselves at the expense of the people is particularly discouraging.

    What are your thoughts?

    Comment by The Professor — February 15, 2009 @ 11:27 am

33. I wish I disagreed with you, Professor. Everything you write is absolutely true. Not everybody is able to realize this verity. Propaganda machine is in action. The traditional technologies in manipulation of public conciseness work here by displacement of accents, imitation of freedom and reporting of false achievements. There are rather many people in Russia, including representatives of a very young generation (without hard inheritance), whose political conciseness is completely distorted by the successful brainwash machine. Furthermore Putin’s totalitarian regime differs from Stalin’s one that not indifferent people can openly speak, even demonstrate to some extent their indignation whereas in Stalin’s time people did not dare even to think against, instinctively killing any rebellious ideas. However both regimes are monumental and inviolable and nothing and nobody changes or break the system unless the dictator needs it. One of the notorious and cynical phrases of Putin is: “A dog is barking, caravan is going forth.” (Собака лает-караван идет.) It was said in regard to foreign mass media but it is his attitude towards anybody whom he is not considered as a worthy enemy. We bark – he does not care. But if he cares the “proper” place will be found for you soon, for example, in prison or cemetery after a cup of polonium tea or umbrella shot. I don’t think that he personally approves every political murder. The point is that generally, principally he does not mind against this way of political and economical solutions. It is in his blood, skin, brain soaked up in his young and mature years of ebullient KGB life. And it naturally transforms in outrage of secret and not secret services of Russia.
    In Russia the fortune of country is governed by a strong personality, the role of an individual in the history of Russia is the only possible. Masses have never been capable to be organized in a mighty positive power moving history in a civilized direction putting up a resistance to the existing regime. Everything good and bad is performed by heads (power).
    Besides the post Soviet Union mode of thinking of many people in Russia, very stagnant and sluggish, with subservience of inferior to superior, there is one more very serious problem. It is a total degradation of culture, an intellectual level, moral values, ethic norms, human rights, Russian language due to overall commercialization of all spheres of Russian life. Education, medicine, art, human relations, mass media, relationship between masses(people) and heads(power), social care of children and seniors, everything is infected with a golden calf. Money does not help here as much as it ruins.
    Professor, if you understand Russian you may find all spectrum of ideas of both very intellectual progressive people and average retrogrades, both execrators and minions of system on Echo of Moscow Radio Station. You can listen to it in the Internet and to download interviews, to vote, to express your own ideas. echo.msk.ru . They “bark” very well.:-)

    Comment by Russianwitness — February 17, 2009 @ 9:10 am

34. RW–I am saddened that you agree with me. I will not be gratified if I–and you–are right about Russia.

    One thing that struck me about your comment is how materialism (both in its common usage, and in a more philosophical sense) has infected Russian life. I hypothesize that this is an inevitable result of the aggressive materialism (in the philosophical sense) of the Soviet regime that warped people’s values; the material deprivation of Soviet times that made people focus on the purely material; and the devaluation of human relations and social capital in that system.

    Your comment also brings to mind a subject that I have discussed extensively with a young friend, who happens to live in your city, and who works in the arts. The subject is “the Russian soul.” The basic idea, of course, being that Russia is different than the West because it is more spiritual, more naturalistic, less ratiocentric, and less materialistic. It seems that this concept is effectively an anachronism, something that may have characterized Russia and Russians at one time, but no longer (with exceptions, of course.) Today, the concept seems to be invoked primarily to rationalize seemingly irrational acts. But, as you describe, true spirituality seems a rare thing in Russia today (not to say that it is prevalent in the West by any means, or that I am a spiritual person.)

    I have been wrestling with a post about this subject. The basic idea is that the brutal Stalinist process of wrenching Russia from its rural roots to create an industrial state was extremely traumatic, and warped the Russian soul, and largely extinguished “the Russian soul” (which was, of course, identified with the peasantry.)

    I would love (lyoubyou, right?) to tune into Ekho Moskovy, but alas am only beginning to learn a little (very little) Russian. That’s why I value hearing from people like you.

    Comment by The Professor — February 17, 2009 @ 3:07 pm

35. [...] is soaring (well, admittedly the latter might be true for the last two or three months), note that she speaks only for herself and the c.10% of the population that are fifth-columnists, not the silent majority of [...]

    Pingback by Voice of the People (since July 2008) Part 2 | Sublime Oblivion — May 31, 2009 @ 6:45 pm

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